Go EAST, Young Man!

[Lydia]

Very interesting.

Also, for countdemoney,

what is QS-1000?

and, have you done any smaller orders for goods that require more skill?

Like suits etc.?

How do you find the fabrics (particularly wool) that are available in China?

 

[countdemoney]

what is QS-1000?

It's a variant of ISO-9001. Essentially, documented quality control procedures in mass production. Usually this involves things like inspections of raw materials (fabric isn't torn), inspection at stages of the production process and then inspecting a percentage of made goods. You can get simple or complex depending on the part or process. Each inspection is documented to prove it took place and to audit later if there are problems.

and, have you done any smaller orders for goods that require more skill?

Like suits etc.?

I have an MTM suit from the mainland, but the tailor is originally out of hong kong, so I didn't include them in my original post. I'm very happy with the suit.

Most of the more skilled work I need is in the initial samples, which are all handmade. Quality varies here as we will sometimes sacrifice quality for speed when presenting ideas. If you show them what you want, you can get anything made with comparable quality.

You won't get someone who's got 20+ years experience, but if they can see the stitch, they can sew it.

How do you find the fabrics (particularly wool) that are available in China?

The limited amount of wool I saw was average to my eye, but I'm not an expert on that. I deal mostly with cottons/blends, nylons, PVC and leather. It's all for promotional, and so, more about perceived value (and the clients budget) then other virtues.

On the raw materials side they are set up for big runs of commodity items (sombeody's gotta stock target and walmart).

I would work very closely with the factory if the raw materials (like silk or wool) were vital to a project. It would be well worth your time and money to investigate manufacturers thoroughly if you were going to do a production run of premium goods. Importing materials would be a real option at the top levels. Remember, Americans love crap. Most of the Chinese manufacturers are used to Westerners asking for cheap.

My last trip I went into the Dunhill store in HK. I fell in love with a dunhill brief of amazing beauty, suppleness and lustre. The split cowhide swatch I received for a project this a.m. was well made, but no comparison to the dunhill.

 

[quill]

NOW we're getting to the heart of the matter. Thank you, countedemoney, for your professional insights. I guess this topic really can't avoid discussions of politics and economics, as these issues will certainly figure into China's future vis-a-vis apparel and other goods. But my original intent was to ascertain how prominent China is becoming in offering high-quality apparel that is sought after worldwide. Maybe China doesn't have the generations of bespoke experience that other countries have, but it can certainly be argued that their level of artistic expertise in many areas has never been equalled (i.e., porcelains, jade carvings, wood and cork sculptures, silk production, etc.). So...give them a few generations of hands-on textile/apparel experience, and who's to say they can't produce top-tier products? As LAGuy pointed out earlier, they have a work ethic that puts most of the US at large to shame. Anyway, I for one am very fascinated to watch what's becoming a neck-and-neck race in globalization and demand.

 

[LA Guy]

It's a variant of ISO-9001. Essentially, documented quality control procedures in mass production. Usually this involves things like inspections of raw materials (fabric isn't torn), inspection at stages of the production process and then inspecting a percentage of made goods. You can get simple or complex depending on the part or process. Each inspection is documented to prove it took place and to audit later if there are problems.

Pretty much any engineer will tell you that ISO-9001 is sort of a credibility test for a facility with a reputation problem. It's analogous to those late night t.v. infomercials who claim that they are "accredited" universities. You don't seen a Harvard or a Yale making that claim...

Nevertheless, a useful tool for assessing unknown facilities. And it gives the paper pushers something to do.

 

[Carlo]

Further proof for those who don't believe I am a mean spirited prick from time to time: I got my 17th offer to switch continents on my tie production, here's the note and my response... Can you go to Hell for having a dry and sarcastic sense of humor? Alanc - care to address that, Padre? -----Original Message----- From: Names removed to protect the innocent Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:35 AM To: [email protected] Subject: WE WANT TO BUILT BUSINESS RELATION WITH YOU. WE ARE NECKTIE MANUFACTURER IN CHINA. I WANT TO BUILT BUSINESS RELATION WITH YOU.IF YOU HAVE ANY DEMAND ,PLEASE CONTACT WITH ME. CONTACT PERSON :ALEX Sure Alex, We only do seven fold ties so I'd be interested in seeing your sample seven fold hand sewn construction. With regard to silks I would need some fabric samples to send to our lab to have them certify that no harmful chemicals are used in the finishing process. Thanks for your kind offer, let me know. Chuck

 

[j]

WE ARE NECKTIE MANUFACTURER IN CHINA. I WANT TO BUILT BUSINESS RELATION WITH YOU.IF YOU HAVE ANY DEMAND ,PLEASE CONTACT WITH ME.
 CONTACT PERSON :ALEX

Sure Alex,

We only do seven fold ties so I'd be interested in seeing your sample seven fold hand sewn construction.  With regard to silks I would need some fabric samples to send to our lab to have them certify that no harmful chemicals are used in the finishing process.

Thanks for your kind offer, let me know.

Chuck

That's gotta be the nicest mean response ever. What would you do if he sent both and they measured up? Could you consider sourcing from China assuming the exact same quality? (Not that that is probably possible, but hypothetically.)

 

[Carlo]

J - In all honesty No, wouldn't do it. Personal objection to the government there, none toward the people.

When they crack down hard on counterfeiters instead of protesting students then I'll reconsider my position.

Let's see if I get a response....

 

[quill]

...this is all getting more interesting by the minute.

 

[esquire.]

Maybe China doesn't have the generations of bespoke experience that other countries have, but it can certainly be argued that their level of artistic expertise in many areas has never been equalled (i.e., porcelains, jade carvings, wood and cork sculptures, silk production, etc.).

Actually, I question how true that statement is. There must have been generations of tailors who worked on this craft, and had to make clothes for the emperors and his court.

If anything, it was probbably Mao that wiped that generation off. But, that would seem to be true for other former communist countries, which have restarted their artistic traditions such as Vass. (wasn't aharris supposed to write up something in that vass thread already?)

If you think about it, silk is originally from China. And, so the Chinese probably have had more experience working with this material than other nations.

At some point, most silk ties will eventually be made in China. All the good silk still comes from China, so you would be able to cut down on import duties and taxes, shipping costs, and time by bundling all of that together in one location. That's been one of China's strenghts in that they've bundled different industries together so that in one city you'll find all the sock manufacturers and all the other industries needed to support the sock manufacturers. Same logic works with another industry in a different city.

It doesn't seem very efficient in terms of supply chain management to get silk from china, then ship that over to italy with its higher labor costs to have it manufactured, and then finally ship it over to america to have it sold.

Does anyone still associate Taiwan with poor quality anymore? I don't anymore because all the cheap and poor quality manufacturers moved to China as Taiwan's labor costs rose. I don't know if that will prove hapen with China, since it has a huge labor force that will dampen any increases.

 

[esquire.]

Quote:

(StagRaven @ April 12 2005,20:10) Thomas Friedman writes almost exclusively on this subject, and just released his latest,
I am so sorry, but I don't think any scholar should take anything that Thomas Friedman writes seriously. He is superficially writing on subjects neither commesurate with his intelligence nor educational qualification. His book, "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" was a joke. I read it in college, most of my friends agreed that we were disgusted with how he was trying to pass himself as an expert on globalization, only later to find out that the book was assigned for reading as an example of a poorly written book. Â If you want to understand globalization, there are far better books written by far more intelligent people.
new yorker, I'm curious as to why your college assigned that book as an example of poor writing? I just looked it up, and it won several awards. Are you against globalism, or just Friedman's arguments?

 

[Demeter]

Michel Chossudovsky comes to mind. He's very anti-, but his arguments are concise and objective, and extremely hard to argue against. This is probably because his work is very often just a frighteningly well-organized regurgitation of facts.

 

[newyorker]

Are you against globalism, or just Friedman's arguments?

I am very much a proponent of globalization (a soft approach, not a big-bang approach; which means gradual relaxation of protectionist policies). I'm not so much against his arguments (although he didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, with the possible exception of the fine people he has met and the fine hotels / airlines he has travelled on) as I am against his know-it-all attitude. He is grapling with major issues that even the most intelligent economists and political scientists find challenging, but he simplifies things and makes a lot of claims that are supported by shaky evidence based on his globe-trotting experience and attendance at fancy conferences instead of solid research and logic. For people who are not willing to look into the theory and the data, his book gives them the false sense that they understand globalization, hence the awards he has received. It can be a very convicing book to the lay person. But show me a development economist or a international trade economist who has a high opinion of that book.