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Gmat

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Bradford, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. VKK3450

    VKK3450 Distinguished Member

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    Like Drizz says, if you are applying to top tier schools, you will find that GMAT is only one factor, and actually a somewhat lower weighted one. Schools will have a range that they look for and being within that range is what you need to hit. If the rest of your app is solid, then a 650 GMAT is enough to get into many top programs. For example, 650 is definitely in range of LBS, and I believe in range of Wharton also.

    Granted, if you have other weak points, then a strong GMAT may cover something like weak transcripts in certain areas… And some schools look for a certain breakup, for example heavy quant schools.

    Too much emphasis is placed on GMAT prep. During my application process I have run across fellow candidates who have been complaining about not getting into any of their picks even though they have a 720-730 GMAT and graduated in the X percentage of their class. In any significant program, GMAT and undergrad are only tollgates. They don’t get you in. It’s your essays, reference and interviews that differentiate you from the pack. (Ohhh, and 2 years work experience is quite low these days...)

    If you are prepping apps, then know what range you need to hit for the schools you want. Hit that score, and move on…. Smokin essays, that’s the ticket

    K
     


  2. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Stylish Dinosaur

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    Like Drizz says, if you are applying to top tier schools, you will find that GMAT is only one factor, and actually a somewhat lower weighted one. Schools will have a range that they look for and being within that range is what you need to hit. If the rest of your app is solid, then a 650 GMAT is enough to get into many top programs. For example, 650 is definitely in range of LBS, and I believe in range of Wharton also. Granted, if you have other weak points, then a strong GMAT may cover something like weak transcripts in certain areas… And some schools look for a certain breakup, for example heavy quant schools. Too much emphasis is placed on GMAT prep. During my application process I have run across fellow candidates who have been complaining about not getting into any of their picks even though they have a 720-730 GMAT and graduated in the X percentage of their class. In any significant program, GMAT and undergrad are only tollgates. They don’t get you in. It’s your essays, reference and interviews that differentiate you from the pack. (Ohhh, and 2 years work experience is quite low these days...) If you are prepping apps, then know what range you need to hit for the schools you want. Hit that score, and move on…. Smokin essays, that’s the ticket K
    I would say the essay is important but your work experience may be a bit more important, and of course the interview, which may be the most important factor, although the other ones will help in getting you that interview, unless of course you're applying at a school like UCLA and some others that interviews all applicants. My weighting of what factors are important are: 1) Interview, with the caveat that you have to get to the point where you're selected for an interview. However, once you are you will have a good chance to be admitted if you make a good impression on the interview. If you are a very solid candidate, then the interview may not make or break your admission, but certainly if you aren't the prototypical candidate this is the most important part. 2) Job experience/references Nearly anyone with good executive level experience can get into a top business school, as long as the other parts of their application are at least adequate and they seem like "business school material" from the essays and interview. The references will help to qualify their professional and educational ability. 3) Essays I downplay this to a certain degree because a lot of people employ ghostwriters and the colleges know this, which is why the face to face interview is more important, but if you do a bad job on essays you can kiss your app goodbye. 4) GMAT/GPA/Quality of Undergrad education Like VKK said, you need to meet the requirements of the program that you are applying to. This is mostly important because it is a component of some of the business school rankings, so they want to get top candidates.
     


  3. VKK3450

    VKK3450 Distinguished Member

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    I would say the essay is important but your work experience may be a bit more important, and of course the interview, which may be the most important factor, although the other ones will help in getting you that interview, unless of course you're applying at a school like UCLA and some others that interviews all applicants.

    My weighting of what factors are important are:

    1) Interview, with the caveat that you have to get to the point where you're selected for an interview. However, once you are you will have a good chance to be admitted if you make a good impression on the interview. If you are a very solid candidate, then the interview may not make or break your admission, but certainly if you aren't the prototypical candidate this is the most important part.

    2) Job experience/references Nearly anyone with good executive level experience can get into a top business school, as long as the other parts of their application are at least adequate and they seem like "business school material" from the essays and interview. The references will help to qualify their professional and educational ability.

    3) Essays I downplay this to a certain degree because a lot of people employ ghostwriters and the colleges know this, which is why the face to face interview is more important, but if you do a bad job on essays you can kiss your app goodbye.

    4) GMAT/GPA/Quality of Undergrad education Like VKK said, you need to meet the requirements of the program that you are applying to. This is mostly important because it is a component of some of the business school rankings, so they want to get top candidates.



    I think for the most part we have the same view here...

    I stress essays, because it is the thing you can work now. If you want to apply next rounds, then your work experience is set, and you need to position it with essays. Your interviews will only come later, after you have submitted your app. While the quality of your work experience and your interview are key, your essays are the mechanism by which you can convey the work experience to the ad com, and it is only after seeing your essays that you will get an interview in the majority of quality programs (nearly all are invite only these days).

    Agreed, there are many services out there churning perfectly punctuated and spelled essays, but the ones which show truly valid candidates can be seen to be written by the candidate. They are ones that tell a story of the person, what their goals are, and what they have done to reach them. I have seen a few done by services, and while they look impressive to the untrained eye, a top school ad com will weed them out immediately. Good essays really should be personal and give a glimpse into the person.

    References?... Well, yes and no... Like anything else, they need to be properly positioned, or they are not a differentiator.

    Interviews, incredibly important, but you need to get that far first. My London Business School interview was brutal. 1.5 hours, very aggressive, probing and antagonistic. Questions like "Why should I care?' and "What is the point in what you have done?" I thought it was personal at first and that my chances were tanked, but it seems that they just want to push you to see if you can hold up. I made it in as a round 4 candidate.

    As someone who has just gone through the app process and is now packing his stuff for the move, I wish the best to anyone about to apply.

    K
     


  4. Concordia

    Concordia Distinguished Member Dubiously Honored

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    I think for the most part we have the same view here...
    My London Business School interview was brutal. 1.5 hours, very aggressive, probing and antagonistic. Questions like "Why should I care?' and "What is the point in what you have done?" I thought it was personal at first and that my chances were tanked, but it seems that they just want to push you to see if you can hold up. I made it in as a round 4 candidate.


    LBS seems to have a tradition of that. Mine was scheduled in NYC, even though I said I had a vacation coming up and could come to London. Hmmm, thinks I-- there must be something special about this NYC hotel.

    Anyway, they had me come at 3PM for a 4PM interview, and stuck me in a hotel suite with a few admissions people and a lot of other applicants. I had to hang out and be nice to everyone, while letting them see that I could drink tea out of a cup. Then the interview was a 2 on 1 deal with the "bad cop," an older alum, trying to see if I'd get rattled. "Why is American television so much worse than British?" was just one of the more off-the-wall questions.

    Luckily I'd had a few acceptances by then, and was able to enjoy the ride. Mine was the last slot of the day and when it went overtime I figured I'd done OK.
     


  5. VKK3450

    VKK3450 Distinguished Member

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    LBS seems to have a tradition of that. Mine was scheduled in NYC, even though I said I had a vacation coming up and could come to London. Hmmm, thinks I-- there must be something special about this NYC hotel.

    Anyway, they had me come at 3PM for a 4PM interview, and stuck me in a hotel suite with a few admissions people and a lot of other applicants. I had to hang out and be nice to everyone, while letting them see that I could drink tea out of a cup. Then the interview was a 2 on 1 deal with the "bad cop," an older alum, trying to see if I'd get rattled. "Why is American television so much worse than British?" was just one of the more off-the-wall questions.

    Luckily I'd had a few acceptances by then, and was able to enjoy the ride. Mine was the last slot of the day and when it went overtime I figured I'd done OK.


    Yeah, I had already locked down Oxford which was my top choice over LBS, so I figured I would just go ahead with the interview and enjoy the ride. Thus I didnt have any problem in firing back at the interviewers, and having a bit of spirited banter. I think that this contribuited to me getting in.

    If I was in a position to really need the LBS offer, I dont know what my attitude would have been.

    K
     


  6. Bradford

    Bradford Current Events Moderator

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    BUMP -

    I GOT IN!!!!!

    Just got the call from the admissions office!

    Classes start on August 21 - which also happens to be my 39th Birthday.

    As to scoring higher, yes, I'm quite confident that I could have achieved a higher score if I'd more than 3-days to study math. However, as I've expressed before, I have my reasons for doing an evening program here in Phoenix - the most important of course, being my wife and kids.

    Good luck to everyone else who's going through this this process. I have to say, it wasn't as tough as I always thought it would be.
     


  7. Concordia

    Concordia Distinguished Member Dubiously Honored

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    Congratulations, good luck, and enjoy!
     


  8. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Stylish Dinosaur

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    Congrats.
     


  9. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    "Why is American television so much worse than British?"

    Oh, that's an easy question:

    First off: no Jeremy Clarkson. Secondly: the sense of humor, the British have one. It's not just Set-up, joke, punch line, As it is in American TV. It's a more developed process, It requires more the use of ones brain and less a dead-pan, non-thought reaction; just watch Benny Hill.

    Jon.
     


  10. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
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    BUMP -

    I GOT IN!!!!!

    Just got the call from the admissions office!

    Classes start on August 21 - which also happens to be my 39th Birthday.

    As to scoring higher, yes, I'm quite confident that I could have achieved a higher score if I'd more than 3-days to study math. However, as I've expressed before, I have my reasons for doing an evening program here in Phoenix - the most important of course, being my wife and kids.

    Good luck to everyone else who's going through this this process. I have to say, it wasn't as tough as I always thought it would be.


    Congrats Brad, good luck with your studies.
     


  11. Quirk

    Quirk Distinguished Member

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    Congratulations, Bradford! Evenings, right? So does this change the kind of 9-5 you'll be looking for?
     


  12. Mr. Checks

    Mr. Checks Distinguished Member

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    Congrats!

    Seesh, B-school on top of Hillsdale, no chance you'll be voting for Hillary after that!
     


  13. tbabes

    tbabes Senior Member

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    I GOT IN!!!!!

    Congrats to you; good luck, and enjoy it![​IMG]
     


  14. lifersfc

    lifersfc Senior Member

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    Evening MBA programs typically have lower requirements than full-time programs.

    Also, GMAT is only a small part of the application package, it's relatively difficult to go to business school right out of undergrad as a lot of business schools want individuals with 2+ years of work experience but it certainly isn't unheard of. In that case, GMAT/GPA will be especially important as well as recs from internship employers etc.


    You are correct in some ways. There are very few people getting into HBS or Stanford right out of undergrad unless they have excellent connections. Nonetheless, I believe it is worth taking the GMAT now while I am still at the pinnacle of my test-taking abilities. If I do not attend business school within 5 years (when the test would expire), I doubt I will ever attend.

    I expect to apply after two years of work experience in management consulting, in which case GMAT/GPA become very important factors, espcially since I will only have had one real employer. Anyway, wish me luck...I am taking the test within the next couple weeks. The GMATPrep tests I have taken went quite well.
     


  15. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Stylish Dinosaur

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    You are correct in some ways. There are very few people getting into HBS or Stanford right out of undergrad unless they have excellent connections. Nonetheless, I believe it is worth taking the GMAT now while I am still at the pinnacle of my test-taking abilities. If I do not attend business school within 5 years (when the test would expire), I doubt I will ever attend.

    I expect to apply after two years of work experience in management consulting, in which case GMAT/GPA become very important factors, espcially since I will only have had one real employer. Anyway, wish me luck...I am taking the test within the next couple weeks. The GMATPrep tests I have taken went quite well.


    Yeah, you're right about that, it doesn't hurt to take the GMAT right after undergrad. That's what I did and it was fine. The nice thing about the GMAT is that you get your score right away [​IMG]
     


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