Girl question (would you date your neighbor?)

[LARon]

I have a situation and would like some input. About eight months ago, an absolutely drop dead gorgeous young Persian woman moved-in across the hall, with her mother. She's probably late 20s (I'm 45); the mother's probably late 50s, and hovers over the daughter.

The daughter rarely seems to go out; her car is always parked across from mine, is there when I leave in the morning and when I return at night. Even on weekends, she seems not to go out much. I rarely see her; in fact, I think I've seen her less than a dozen times in the eight months she's lived across the hall, and most of those occasions were around the time she was moving in. (At that time, although I frequently saw the mother, I had no idea she was planning to live there too.) Also, I don't get the impression that she's dating anyone; I've never seen any guys visit, nor have I ever heard her entertaining (both of which are very odd, considering how perfectly attractive she is).

Anyway, we passed in the hall yesterday, and exchanged New Year greetings. As I passed, it appeared that she turned her shoulders ever so slightly in my direction, as if she were poised to stop and chat, had I given her reason to. I didn't (and have been kicking myself ever since), and here's why: First, she's my next door neighbor! Is it rational to try and date the proverbial -- and in this case literal -- "girl next door," particularly when she still lives with her mother?

Second, during an exchange about six weeks ago she made a comment that caught my attention. After learning that I'm selling my place she expressed slight regret that I'll soon be moving (it could've been just one of those things you say to be nice, rather than an indication of real regret). When I justified my decision by noting that I'm single and the area we live in is more family oriented, she woefully replied, "I'm married to my mother." Even if it were OK to try to make a move on her, is this comment a red flag? Does this reveal a level of devotion to her mother that will prevent this young woman from having her own life? (As I noted before, I've never seen or heard any guys call on her.)

Finally, back around mid-October I left a note on her door complimenting her Halloween decor. It was quite festive, in my face every time I opened my door and brightened up our end of the hall. For these reasons, and because it actually lifted my mood each time I saw it, I felt the effort deserved a word of appreciation. Since I rarely see her (only about three times in the last four to five months), leaving the note was the only way I could let her know that her decorating was tasteful and well received. She has never once mentioned or acknowledged the compliment. Is this rude, or might this be a reasonable way of (her, or her mother) trying to avoid inviting a more direct appeal? (which would surely have happened, had she offered any acknowledgement, even though it was not my original intent).

Comments?

 

[kronik]

No.

 

[LARon]

I appreciate your certainty and brevity, but please offer a thought or two on why not.

 

[King Salmon]

Her mother may have intercepted your note.

I certainly don't see why you should not date your neighbor. If it ended badly it would not cause nearly as much drama as if she were a co-worker or roommate. My neighbor is a very beautiful horticulturalist and she works at a plant nursery. I often think of her as Poison Ivy from the Batman comics, experimenting on plants and plotting world domination. I certainly wouldn't mind dating her if she didn't have a boyfriend -- a decidedly lame dork.

That said, this particular neighbor may not work out for you considering the mother issue.

 

[designprofessor]

I'm reading between the lines, but it sounds like you want to go ahead with this. So go ahead with it. You'll find out soon enough how much of an obstacle the mother may or may not be. I mean no offense to you here, but you also would have to know if it is YOU she is attracted to or is she attracted to the fact that you represent a chance to get away from her mother?

 

[mano]

If they are not yet Americanized you may want to first learn about the Iranian culture and acceptable dating customs. This may help you avoid any number of pitfalls. Also, be aware that her responses and reactions to you may not go beyond being neighborly and friendly, albeit sincere. Infatuation lowers the accuracy of our perceptions.

 

[tiecollector]

My current girlfriend started out at my next door neighbor. You are selling your place anyways so why does it matter? The biggest problem I'd see is your pretty big age difference and her family (big one). Sounds like you are more worried about her mom and family. Also, Persians are pretty keen on the no mixed ethnicity thing from what I hear.

I'd forget about this chick.

 

[GQgeek]

For all the bad press Iran gets, I've known a couple of iranians and I find them to be incredibly friendly people, however misguided some of their politics may be. Depending upon how long they've been in the country, you may have more or less obstacles in your path.

If she is in fact married to her mother, she's probably lonely, but it will be impossible to tell so don't even worry about it at this point. Fortunately, I never had to deal with mother/family issues because the girl I dated was a university student away from home, so I can't specifically comment on what might or might not be going on there.

If the mother is devoutly religious, you'll possibly run in to some friction, but you won't be the first and it's something you can overcome, as long as the girl you're interested in is open to it. With an immigrant family, you'll be a lot more successful if you project some authority and have done well for yourself in life. If the mother ultimately rejects you, so will the daughter. Being humble is the wrong way to go, at least in the presence of her family. If it gets so far that you're ever eating dinner with them, I don't need to tell you that you should avoid any pro-western stance on foreign policy. ;p

The barrier to entry (pardon the pun) will be lower while you're still there due to the situation with the mother. If you're gonna make a move on her, get her hooked before you move so that she's got a real incentive to go out of her way to see you. Your "dates" will have to be short and sweet. Some of this is just guesswork because the girl I dated had been here for a few years so it was fairly uncomplicated. A lot of these girls will burst out of their shell once they're shown another world. My girl grew-up in iran with devoutly religious parents, but she definitely didn't hold anything back. In fact, she was a notorious flirt and was very clear with me about her desires.

One of the best things you can do to score points with both the mother and daughter, is to show some interest in their culture. They love talking about this stuff. It will separate you from almost every other westerner that they meet every day. If you strip away the fanaticism that taints them, they're a lovely people. They can be very devoted to anything they pursue.

It's definitely worth a shot. How has the mother treated you btw? Or has she ever even acknowledged you? Are they educated? If so, here or in Iran? Do you happen to know if the mother ever leaves the apartment while the daughter is still there? If you can catch her alone, that would definitely make it easier for her to accept an invitation for coffee or something. Phrase it innocently, following-up on what she's already said, saying that it's a shame you never really got to know each other, but that you'd love to talk over tea or coffee before you move out. If you've got a nice place and don't think you'll ever get her alone, invite them both over, and do your very best to impress, because it will probably be your only shot. If the mother shoots you down, it's game over. Again, this is assuming they're recent immigrants. If she's been living here a while you'll have more room for error.

If I can promise you anything, it's that it won't be easy, but you shouldn't avoid it just on that basis. I dated an orthodox jewish girl once and while other events conspired to thwart my chances, that's one girl i definitely would have made some sacrifices for.

If you want, I'll try and ring her up to see how you should best handle the situation. We parted amicably.

 

[LARon]

Thanks for the very thoughtful comments, GQgeek.

In light of your, tiecollector's and mano's recent posts, I should point out that my ex-in laws are Iranian/Persian and my daughter (now four years old, and equally fluent in Farsi and English) is mixed (so much for the theory of not mixing; in fact, my ex-mother in-law recently tried to lobby me for another grandchild). So, I'm very aware of Iranian mores and culture, and am fully aware of the mother's power/influence.

Having said that, in the present context, I haven't really had more than two or three passing exchanges (smiles, "hello"s, etc.) with the mother; so, don't know if she's religious or not. I did find myself in their place briefly one day and found it full of heavily Persian objects (gold tea sets and trays, dark burgundy rugs, framed sepia photos, etc.)

I also know that the daughter graduated from UC/Irvine. And, judging by her tendency to decorate (for Halloween, Thanksgiving and even Christmas), I believe she's pretty assimilated (whereas the mother's definitely from the old country). In any event, next time I run into her I'll extend a casual invitation for a cup of tea or glass of wine. I like that approach; we'll see where it goes from there. Judging by how infrequently I see this little bunny, however, it could be another month or two. Can't tell when the mother's there, so knocking on the door is not really a good option. Besides, I prefer the incidental encounter.

Judging from the good comments you all have offered, it sounds like more of you think she's fair game, provided I can navigate the religion/mother issues. Thanks, guys; I appreciate your thoughts and comments.

 

[LARon]

Originally Posted by tiecollector

My current girlfriend started out at my next door neighbor. You are selling your place anyways so why does it matter? The biggest problem I'd see is your pretty big age difference and her family (big one). Sounds like you are more worried about her mom and family. Also, Persians are pretty keen on the no mixed ethnicity thing from what I hear.

I'd forget about this chick.

Actually, tiecollector, big age gaps are not a big issue. In fact, a lot of Persian women marry much older men. My ex-sister-in-law got married at 20, to a guy who was 42. They were married for only eight years, but in that time had four kids. This is not uncommon.

 

[tiecollector]

Originally Posted by LARon

Actually, tiecollector, big age gaps are not a big issue. In fact, a lot of Persian women marry much older men. My ex-sister-in-law got married at 20, to a guy who was 42. They were married for only eight years, but in that time had four kids. This is not uncommon.

You're right, in the Middle East it is much more common. Not my cup of tea, anyways, you have obviously made up your mind so dunno why you needed to post here. Go talk to her then if you know what you are up against. If the fact that she is your neighbor is the only thing stopping you then I think you don't have to worry about that.

 

[rdawson808]

I dated a neighbor once. We shared a wall in our apartment complex and the after-break up was a mess. We couldn't help but see each other all of the time. Including hearing her when she brought dates home (the door and talking, not sex, thank gawds). Your situation may be different, but my advice is: No.

bob

 

[LARon]

Originally Posted by tiecollector

If the fact that she is your neighbor is the only thing stopping you then I think you don't have to worry about that.

Yes, as noted in the thread title, that was and remains my primary concern, largely for the reasons recently cited by rdawson808. But, since I will be leaving (as you previously noted), should any estrangement occur, it likely wouldn't last long.

She's so beautiful that, if the worse that can happen is a bit of discomfort, its a price I'm willing to pay. (Notice I didn't say she's "hot" because, while she easily could be, she doesn't give off that vibe at all. Probably because of the mother's hovering/influence.)

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by LARon

(Notice I didn't say she's "hot" because, while she easily could be, she doesn't give off that vibe at all. Probably because of the mother's hovering/influence.)


1. I see no problem with dating a nieghbor, or a younger woman.

2. I think that the mother thing can be worked to your advantage - if the mother can be helped to understand that you are less of a threat to her status quo (being right near by and such a nice man...). the flip side of this, if it gets serious, you are dealing with a hellish situation with the mother in law - their will be boundry issues - the mother will assume that she is the most important part of your three person relationship.

3. about the whole hot/beutiful thing. I dated a religios (jewish) woman once who was extremly beutiful, but very cold. I assumed that that was fixable. very simply, it wasn't. so, you may very well be faced with the best case scenario of having a very beutiful, very young, doll to penetrate, with little or no enthousiasm or participation from her side.

all in all, I would say go for it.

 

[LARon]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

2. if it gets serious, you are dealing with a hellish situation with the mother in law

3. I dated a religios (jewish) woman once who was extremly beutiful, but very cold. I assumed that that was fixable. very simply, it wasn't.
all in all, I would say go for it.

In light of these two remarks it seems odd that you would encourage me to "go for it." Don't get me wrong, your comments, being drawn from personal experience, are very insightful and helpful. They just don't seem to support the encouraging conclusion (i.e., a potentially "hellish situation," a "beautiful, but very cold" woman, and a situation re: the cold woman that's not fixable). Why would you encourage someone to embrace that?