Ghosts?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by JLibourel, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. redcaimen

    redcaimen Bigtime

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    We all should believe in ghosts. One of my favorite E. Dickinson poems explains why.




    One need not be a chamber to be haunted,
    One need not be a house;
    The brain has corridors surpassing
    Material place.

    Far safer, of a midnight meeting
    External ghost,
    Than an interior confronting
    That whiter host.

    Far safer through an Abbey gallop,
    The stones achase,
    Than, moonless, one's own self encounter
    In lonesome place.

    Ourself, behind ourself concealed,
    Should startle most;
    Assassin, hid in our apartment,
    Be horror's least.

    The prudent carries a revolver,
    He bolts the door,
    O'erlooking a superior spectre
    More near.
     
  2. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I once woke to see a man standing next to my bed. He was translucent, but I wasn't frightened by him. In fact, I went back to sleep.

    I'd chalk it up as a dream if I hadn't later discovered other people had seen the same man. They too had had the same odd reaction.
     
  3. Stazy

    Stazy Senior member

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    No such thing as ghosts.
     
  4. Ludeykrus

    Ludeykrus Senior member

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    I don't believe in ghosts at all. I honestly don't think I believe in an afterlife.

    I did, however, have a freaky as hell girlfriend that honestly scared me on some of the things she saw. I posted the the story on another board and am too lazy to look it up, but it definitely makes a man think.
     
  5. Connemara

    Connemara [URL='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jST2Sv63WQ']

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    I don't believe in ghosts at all. I honestly don't think I believe in an afterlife. I did, however, have a freaky as hell girlfriend that honestly scared me on some of the things she saw. I posted the the story on another board and am too lazy to look it up, but it definitely makes a man think.
    Have a good night's sleep and then post it. [​IMG]
     
  6. Teacher

    Teacher Senior member

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    a relative of mine says that when she was a little girl, she used to get up in the middle of the night once in a while to use the bathroom, and every few months, she would encounter a family of chimps, eating breakfast, in the kitchen. she remembers very vividly a mother and two children, all dressed in human clothes. she would walk past them on her way to the bathroom and they would continue with their breakfast without paying much attention to her. so, for years and years she never told anyone about this, because she assumed no one would believe her.


    Yeah, there is just no way this was a child's vivid, recurring dream. No way.
     
  7. rxcats

    rxcats Senior member

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    I don't believe in anything supernatural. That includes ghosts, gods and homeopathy.
     
  8. Ludeykrus

    Ludeykrus Senior member

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    Have a good night's sleep and then post it. [​IMG]

    It seems like you try to encourage every bad idea [​IMG]
     
  9. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    I sort of wonder about that. It is surprising the number of apparently down-to-earth people who appear to have encountered ghosts or ghostly phenomena.

    Apparently normal, down-to-earth people also believe in massive conspiracy theories that are completely implausible. Anyone that believes in this stuff is an idiot.
     
  10. JammieDodger

    JammieDodger Senior member

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    i don't see how anyone can say they don't believe in ghosts. if you haven't seen one, then you haven't seen one. you don't know if they exist or not. if you've seen one, you believe.

    What?!?

    You're saying that it makes no sense to believe ghosts don't exist if you haven't seen one? I don't believe the earth is flat, because I've seen no evidence of it being so - is this wrong too?

    To the original post, yes ghosts can be found in many cultures. Yes many down to earth people have claimed to see them. But by now you'd expect there to be at least one piece of reliable evidence, of which there is none. The fact that down to earth people claim to have seen them I think is more of a testament to how easily the brain can be deceived, rather than anything else.

    Put simply, belief in ghosts is a leap of faith, like religious beliefs. Nothing wrong with faith, but ghosts are not science until there is tangible evidence.
     
  11. Dragon

    Dragon Senior member

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    I am always surprised by how much people rely on science to tell them whether to believe in something or not. Even more interesting is how different groups interpret the Bible in completely different ways, resulting in various explanations for things like ghosts and spirits.
     
  12. Dr. J

    Dr. J Active Member

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    I'll bite. Ghosts don't exist. I base this on the following.

    Negative Evidence:
    I haven't personally found them where they're reported to be. Despite looking.
    No successful serious investigations, despite attempts and significant incentive (e.g. Nobel Prize, fame and fortune, etc.)

    Insufficient Positive Evidence:
    Specific testimonials rarely approach any standard of reliability.
    Testimonials are frequently inconsistent and "retconned".
    Testimonial evidence often has plausible alternative explanations.
    These weaknesses overlap enough that every testimonial I've encountered has suffered from at least one.

    Theoretical Problems:
    Testimonial evidence in principle has a heavy epistemic burden to overcome. See Hume on miracles.
    Testimonials conflict with well-supported physical theories (e.g. causal closure) and are not in themselves sufficient to undermine these theories (given any modest model of evidentiary sufficiency).

    Interestingly, even if I saw a ghost (a real ghost) in a one-off experience, it would be more rational for me to believe I was insane or hallucinating than to believe it was a supernatural event. There is more (and better) evidence supporting the way the world seems than there is evidence that my mind is sound. Given this, always be prepared to doubt yourself first.
     
  13. zupermaus

    zupermaus Senior member

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    I often have dreams of a grey shadow standing by my bed, its a recurring theme borne through a sleep disorder- hypnaea, sleep paralysis setting off alarm bells (read: nightmarish scenarios) in which you panic (the feeling of abject, utter terror, like falling off a building but never reaching bottom) but cannot wake up although your eyes are opened, and worse cannot move. I usually manage to call weakly for someone to wake me up through my trance but rarely someone does.

    Its almost always about the undead, a ghost, a spirit, and me calling on them.


    I think the freakiest instance I had was a dream in which the characters in the dream told me not to open a door, for behind it lay the devil. Of course, I opened it and waited, and hey presto! the Devil came up and gave me a book. He was a Crusader knight on horseback, and very quiet and very scary.

    When I woke my arms were crossed over my chest like the dead (another recurring action) and I was holding the Bible, totally freaky.


    When I was akid freaky stuff kept happening in the house, eg things moving on their own accord
    on my bedside table - from left to right-, cups flying and exploding, and footsteps on the stairs at night. From my bedroom I could see the stairs and if the light was on there was never anyone there. It sounds weird but at the time you don't freak out, you just complete ignore it.

    One night I got a knocking on the window, and this time it didnt go away. It wasnt something I could ignore anymore as it just got louder and louder until the whole frame was creaking. I ended up running to my sisters room and jumping in bed with her; she woke up and told me off but I explained I had some scary shit happen and I REALLY couldnt go back. Then we went to go back to sleep, but a few minutes later the noise started happening on her window. I remeber we both opened our eyes the same time. The whole frame was shaking and moving, and we ended up in my mum's bed but we never told her, or spoke about it since.

    My other sister also used to have bad dreams about ghosts, waking up screaming the house down, then when awake screaming some more till we had to calm her down.

    After a while everything stopped, the house has been fine since then but sometimes it is a bit spooky. The house was built in 1963 on the outskirts of London (Windsor), and was bought off an old lady and her daughter, and we kept all their original furnishings. Ive no idea what was there before our development or who lived there before them, but the street was originally laid out in the Nineteenth Century. Although the houses are 20thy Century the trees are very old, and imported varieties, we have 150 year old California Redwoods behind the house, which makes me think it was once an upmarket district.

    England apparently has more 'ghosts' per square mile than anywhere else in the world.
     
  14. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Senior member

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    Yeah, there is just no way this was a child's vivid, recurring dream. No way.

    and why do you disregard the next part of my post?

    What?!?

    You're saying that it makes no sense to believe ghosts don't exist if you haven't seen one? I don't believe the earth is flat, because I've seen no evidence of it being so - is this wrong too?

    To the original post, yes ghosts can be found in many cultures. Yes many down to earth people have claimed to see them. But by now you'd expect there to be at least one piece of reliable evidence, of which there is none. The fact that down to earth people claim to have seen them I think is more of a testament to how easily the brain can be deceived, rather than anything else.

    Put simply, belief in ghosts is a leap of faith, like religious beliefs. Nothing wrong with faith, but ghosts are not science until there is tangible evidence.


    the highest authority is not science, or faith, but your own experience. someone who has experienced a ghost knows they exist. someone who has not experienced a ghost has no experience on which to base an opinion. they can still have an opinion, but to say they don't exist is simply being close-minded.
     
  15. redcaimen

    redcaimen Bigtime

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    I am always surprised by how much people rely on science to tell them whether to believe in something or not.

    In keeping with my previous vaguely ghey poetry entry:


    Mock on, mock on, Voltaire, Rousseau;
    Mock on, mock on; 'tis all in vain!
    You throw the sand against the wind,
    And the wind blows it back again.
    And every sand becomes a gem
    Reflected in the beams divine;
    Blown back they blind the mocking eye,
    But still in Israel's paths they shine.

    The Atoms of Democritus
    And Newton's Particles of Light
    Are sands upon the Red Sea shore,
    Where Israel's tents do shine so bright.

    William Blake
     

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