gennaro paone: former head tailor of rubinacci

[Cantabrigian]



Nah, she goes with everything:

Wait. Is that suit grey?

 

[TheFoo]



Wait. Is that suit grey?

No, navy hopsack.

 

[Cantabrigian]



No, navy hopsack.

Ah. Makes a lot more sense with the blue gingham.

I need to go back to the monitor calibration thread.

 

[itsstillmatt]



Foo: ever considered that people's dislike here of Rubinacci may be directly linked to you singing their praise?

I that's true, that's really dumb.

I don't think that there is any doubt but that it is true. Or that it is really dumb.

FWIW, I don't think that foo is wrong or obnoxious in suggesting that there is a big difference between tasting at the tailor smorgasbord and developing a relationship with a tailor. One teaches you how tailors treat people they see as one or two offs, they aren't stupid people and it is easy to spot, and the other how they treat long term buyers. Of course it is different. Note that somebody like T4, who started this conversation, did not just try Gennaro once, and if he had, I doubt he would have as strong an opinion.

 

[gdl203]

Surely, iammatt, you remember the (useful and interesting) contributions from Foo after his first trip to Naples, firmly in your footsteps, and his first commissions from LH and Matuozzo. He wrote posts about it, illustrated treatises, even started a blog shortly thereafter to share his views and opinions. Don't tell me that it took 10 or 11 commissions for him to have "a well-informed impression"... It is honestly one of the most puzzling and condescending comment coming from foo in recent history (there's been a few competing for that place).

 

[dieworkwear]

Remarkably, it only takes one order of bespoke Maison Bonnet tortoiseshell frames in order to form an accurate impression of them. This number may change in the future, but for now, it stands at one.

 

[TheFoo]



Surely, iammatt, you remember the (useful and interesting) contributions from Foo after his first trip to Naples, firmly in your footsteps, and his first commissions from LH and Matuozzo.   He wrote posts about it, illustrated treatises, even started a blog shortly thereafter to share his views and opinions.  Don't tell me that it took 10 or 11 commissions for him to have "a well-informed impression"...  It is honestly one of the most puzzling and condescending comment coming from foo in recent history (there's been a few competing for that place). 

Have I not, time and time again, openly reflected on my own naivete from those days? I've repeatedly owned up to the fact that I got overexcited by the romanticism of everything. Now I know things I didn't know then.

If anyone else were to express the same common sense I am trying to share here, I suspect you would not have a problem with it.

 

[carpu65]

That double breasted jacket is an abomination

There is no man on earth with that much of an hourglass figure. In fact you can see the fabric pulling under the chest, the awful silhouette is deliberate

I agree.

 

[TheFoo]



Remarkably, it only takes one order of bespoke Maison Bonnet tortoiseshell frames in order to form an accurate impression of them. This number may change in the future, but for now, it stands at one.

Is this supposed to be clever? Or funny? Evidently, I'm not good at catching either from you.

 

[Grammaton Cleric]



One teaches you how tailors treat people they see as one or two offs, they aren't stupid people and it is easy to spot, and the other how they treat long term buyers. Of course it is different.

Can tailors simply meet clients once or twice and discern quickly who is but a sampler of their services, but Foo's fidelity and noble purpose is evident for all to see from the start?

This sad snobbishness centered on sticking but with one tailor that is perpetuated by some on this board is borderline absurd.

 

[koolbear]

I have tried one jacket from Rubinacci, and one jacket from Solito. From that 1 order, I have already derived an opinion of them both, which will direct future orders. The Rubinacci has better craftsmanship and fit. It is a harder jacket, with a straighter shoulder line. The hand-work is impressive. The Solito is a faaaaaaar softer jacket, with a rounder appearance, that I like. The fit and make is not as good, but is still good to very-good. But I think the fit will improve with subsequent orders. Based on my first orders, I have decided to use Rubinacci for work suits, and Solito for everything more casual. I don't think I need 10 orders to determine what either of them is likely to achieve with future orders. I think the first order will give you enough information to have a reasonable expectation of what will come in the future. I do expect that all of my future orders will have improvements in fit (and style).

I find the Rubinacci-ist attitude around here a bit disappointing, but I can see where it comes from. In this thread alone, we have Luca telling stories to mafoofan about Gennaro's declining health and old age, both of which seem to lack substance, and then he publicly discredits one of his former senior tailors, claiming he is no longer competent to make "quality" jackets. It all reeks of elitism and stupidity. I really like Gennaro and Mariano, they both seem like nice guys who are passionate about what they do. But I can definitely see where some of the negativity sparks from.

 

[itsstillmatt]



Can tailors simply meet clients once or twice and discern quickly who is but a sampler of their services, but Foo's fidelity and noble purpose is evident for all to see from the start?

This sad snobbishness centered on sticking but with one tailor that is perpetuated by some on this board is borderline absurd.

If you don't read foo as being extremely loyal, probably to the point of obsession, given his need for everything to be the same -- one shirt, one shoe, one cut, then you can't really read. It isn't a positive or negative attribute. It just is. Successful salesmen, and the tailors we are talking about are just that, make their paycheck by reading their customers. They are in business, right?

The snobbishness you are talking about doesn't exist. People are just pointing out that there are many different ways to have a relationship with a tailor, and each is probably apparent to men who have seen customers enter their doors for forty or more years. The ironic thing, I guess, is that the people expounding on "true Italian tailors with real Italian clients" are the ones who seem to consistently have non traditional relationships with their tailors. That seems like sad snobbery indeed.

 

[Wes Bourne]



One teaches you how tailors treat people they see as one or two offs, they aren't stupid people and it is easy to spot, and the other how they treat long term buyers.

Then how do you explain teh Ambrosi pents episode?

 

[TheFoo]



I have tried one jacket from Rubinacci, and one jacket from Solito.  From that 1 order, I have already derived an opinion of them both, which will direct future orders.  The Rubinacci has better craftsmanship and fit.  It is a harder jacket, with a straighter shoulder line.  The hand-work is impressive.  The Solito is a faaaaaaar softer jacket, with a rounder appearance, that I like.  The fit and make is not as good, but is still good to very-good.  But I think the fit will improve with subsequent orders.  Based on my first orders, I have decided to use Rubinacci for work suits, and Solito for everything more casual.  I don't think I need 10 orders to determine what either of them is likely to achieve with future orders.  I think the first order will give you enough information to have a reasonable expectation of what will come in the future.  I do expect that all of my future orders will have improvements in fit (and style).


I find the Rubinacci-ist attitude around here a bit disappointing, but I can see where it comes from. In this thread alone, we have Luca telling stories to mafoofan about Gennaro's declining health and old age, both of which seem to lack substance, and then he publicly discredits one of his former senior tailors, claiming he is no longer competent to make "quality" jackets.  It all reeks of elitism and stupidity.  I really like Gennaro and Mariano, they both seem like nice guys who are passionate about what they do.  But I can definitely see where some of the negativity sparks from.

Just to clarify, I am not suggesting one cannot get a meaningful sense of a tailor's work after an order or two. In fact, you often don't need any orders. An ugly, ill-fitting suit on another client can be enough.

My point was simply that it takes personal experience over multiple, successive orders to get a good sense of how a tailor works with his clients (i.e. how collaborative versus prescriptive is he?). Simply asking him upfront won't do the trick.

 

[itsstillmatt]



Surely, iammatt, you remember the (useful and interesting) contributions from Foo after his first trip to Naples, firmly in your footsteps, and his first commissions from LH and Matuozzo.   He wrote posts about it, illustrated treatises, even started a blog shortly thereafter to share his views and opinions.  Don't tell me that it took 10 or 11 commissions for him to have "a well-informed impression"...  It is honestly one of the most puzzling and condescending comment coming from foo in recent history (there's been a few competing for that place). 

As Matt pointed out, the discussion wasn't about how good the tailors in question are, but about how they relate to their clients and how flexible they are.

Look, I don't give a **** about any of this. I dislike the Styleforum interview culture and the weird way people seem to amass "knowledge" through experiences rather than through experience, but these days I live 50 feet from the Pacific ocean pretty close to the middle of nowhere and put a suit on only to go into the city or if I have the itch to feel like a country squire. I don't really participate in this forum, but I do have opinions. I only saw this thread because of foo. I am kind of sorry I did.

I really like your sweaters. They are more along the lines of what somebody in my world needs.