Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, e

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    +1 for this post, stitchy. And that line above I put in bold/italics? Totally applies to me.
     
  2. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    Black tie dinner tonight, so ensemble includes Sinatras from G&G and my Patek 3970 in platinum on a black strap.

    Very rare these days for me to actually wear black shoes except for evening events.


    [​IMG]
     
  3. Texasmade

    Texasmade Senior member

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    Also applies to me. Once I bought my first pair of JL Prestige there was no turning back to cheaper shoes.
     
  4. stevent

    stevent Senior member

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  5. TKDKid

    TKDKid Senior member

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    Then would you also say the same about hand-welted shoes? Should people buy Vass and Saint Crispin's when Meermin Linea Maestro is so much cheaper? Or, if they want bespoke, should they drop $4,500+ on John Lobb St James when all of the other London West End bespoke shoemakers are cheaper? (And the Lobbs won't even come with shoe trees.)
     
  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    It's the same issues at every price level, every method and every maker. And I suspect it's the same people advocating one or the other as well. Because the bottom line is that there is a hierarchy of quality and people who focus on the box or the Name on the box...or the price...are focused on the wrong thing and will never understand quality. I've said this many times in many places, there are bespoke makers who can give you a custom fit and hand welted quality for less than some RTW makers who are selling more blue sky than terra firma. Of course, you won't have any bragging rights if you buy from such makers. and no box or bag to show.

    You have to know what quality is...as opposed to glamour...and you have to look for it without reference to Esquire magazine.

    And as much as I admire Lobbs St. James they're making more per hour and a better markup on raw materials than any number of equal or better bespoke makers around the world and not offering anything of significance different. You figure it out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  7. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Accessibility/distribution aside, customers do get something extra in tangible qualities going from Meermin LM to Vass or SC.

    I beg to differ. Not all bespoke shoemakers are equal and all bespoke makers have to support their pricing/mark up/margin by proving themselves by legacy, association, and experiences.

    And sometimes there's also this hierarchy of masters and apprentices. i.e., some new makers apprenticed under Lobb/Cleverley/Ugolini, or some random West End bloke was an outworker of X, or at the worst case someone went to a shoemaking skill hosted by some makers. You can bet the former will have much more experience and expertise than the latter. If Carreducker aren't experienced in making blind welted shoes, how could their students be any good?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  8. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    :lurk:


    thanks, guys!
     
  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Not strictly true. Bespoke makers do not compete against each other. There's really not enough of them. They compete against themselves and entropy and perhaps to prove themselves to the ghosts of makers past. The "elder shoe gods."

    There is a concept that has long since fallen into disrepute in this society and that is the concept of "enough" Many shoemakers are happy to be making a living doing what they love to do. Manufacturers, on the other hand, compete fiercely. In fact they cannot stop competing...ever...because they can never have enough--customers, profit, cachet.

    You are correct that not all bespoke makers are equal, but that is true of any field of endeavor. The mitigating factor is that every bespoke maker has to personally answer to the customer and for his mistakes. Working with your hands, getting them dirty and having to clean up at night, is humbling in a way that sitting at a desk is not. And most bespoke makers are genuinely trying hard to understand and improve...arguably to a degree that manufacturers cannot afford.

    As for the hierarchy of masters and apprentices...it's there, no question. But when a shoemaker decides to teach or take an apprentice...and if he feels any gratitude towards his own teachers and/or responsibility towards the Trade itself and most importantly towards the student...he will do everything in his power to give the student a head start beyond which he himself had. And the tools and understanding to eventually be better than the teacher. In some cases, the student comes out of training already better than the teacher.

    Beyond that, the concept of "master" doesn't have much currency anymore. No more, certainly than "Finest shoes in Elbonia." It's just words. And everyone wants to be a master or an Artist and few have any compunction about taking that title for themselves.

    So, in the end you're back on your own--if you can't find the wherewithal to learn about quality and all that it entails, you're invariably gonna be at the mercy of marketing hype. And it is marketing hype alone that allows shoes that are not significantly different from others in the same category to charge four and five times more than anyone else.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  10. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    Have you guys been following the Japanese shoe thread? It looks like they are giving the western counterparts a run for the money.
     
  11. mimo

    mimo Pernicious Enabler

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    Yes indeed. But not cheaply. I'd say a lot of them look like another step up though, so maybe it's worth it. I'm following that thread keenly. If they were better at international marketing we'd have ten threads on Japanese makers and very different shoe collections.
     
  12. Nick A

    Nick A Affiliate Vendor

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    Due to an unexpected short trip to Europe I am late with my MTO's of the month for April...Sorry to those who have been asking and patiently waiting...Here goes!


    Bespoke-England 2013 "Made to Order Shoes of the Month": April

    The 2 MTO's this month which will have the usual MTO sur charge removed saving £135.00 Non EU and £160.00 for EU

    April Shoe 1: Due to Popular demand...

    Style: Arran
    Material: Espresso Calf
    Size: YOUR SIZE
    Last Shape: MH71 Soft Square
    Sole: Oak Bark Single Leather soles, Haf, Double Leather or Dainite Soles

    Price is £670.00 Non EU / £804.00 for EU

    Trees if required... G&G Lasted Shoe Trees...£110.00 Non EU or £135.00 EU...OPTIONAL

    Shipping Cost: £40.00

    Estimated Delivery: July / August

    Please note that the Photo shows Arran on TG73 Last.....April MTO is MH71 Last

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Nick A

    Nick A Affiliate Vendor

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    April Shoe 2:

    Style: Grosvenor
    Material: Racing Green Calf
    Size: YOUR SIZE
    Last Shape: TG73 Classic Square
    Sole: Oak Bark Single Leather soles, Haf, Double Leather or Dainite Soles

    Medallion can be removed if required.

    Price is £650.00 Non EU / £780.00 for EU

    Trees if required... G&G Lasted Shoe Trees...£110.00 Non EU or £135.00 EU...OPTIONAL

    Shipping Cost: £40.00

    Estimated Delivery: July / August

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Ilovelobbs

    Ilovelobbs Senior member

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    Possibly not a run for the money, most definitely a run for people aesthetic aspiration. Quality thread of 2013.
     
  15. Ilovelobbs

    Ilovelobbs Senior member

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    Hello Nick,

    What size is the model shown?

    Thanks
     

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