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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, e

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Pardon my naivety here: why would channeled soles have any bearing on this? Are you saying it's standard practice for some makers to laminate an extra thin layer over their channeled soles?

    My understanding was that channeled soles always open eventually. I didn't realise some makers actually covered up the whole sole. That kind of feels like cheating - sticking on an extra layer to cover them, really?!
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  2. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    leather cement, check cobbler. and make sure you use some clamp to apply pressure to hold them together.


    They are not covering a thin layer over the channeled soles. When channeled soles are constructed, the outsole is being cut open at the edge. The flap is then wet and turned 90 degress away from the sole. The outsole is then grooved and stitched to the welt. After the welt lockstitch is done, the flap is wet and turned back to cover the groove and cement together so you won't be able to see any welt stitching from the bottom.

    The problem lies what angles those channel soles are cut, it could be cut horizontally parallel to the outsole, or it could be cut at a biase towards the insole. The latter is a better construction technique IMO.
     
  3. ThinkDerm

    ThinkDerm Senior member

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    sloppy and corner cutting
     
  4. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Thanks for explaining - I didn't realise they cut a big flap horizontally like that. The only times I've seen this in process, it's been an angled, almost vertical slit up through the sole, leaving a very narrow gap to make the groove. Hence the term "channel". And those always open up after a while. No surprise if these big glued flaps separate sometimes then...sounds like toe taps are an essential for this type of sole.

    Man, I love this about SF. I only discovered the forum through looking up stuff about shoes, and still learn something new frequently. Thank you.
     
  5. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Here is a picture (taken from Carmina), which shows the opened channel,
    while the sole is actually being stitched.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Probably stating the obvious but it is worth noting that some outsoles are sewn using an "open" channel--a groove, really. It is slightly better than stitching "aloft" (no channel, no groove) but not by much. It doesn't protect the stitches much at all...allowing immediate exposure to grit and moisture. But it is the most expedient (cheap) way to approach the problem. The sewing is done with a machine.

    A step up would be a vertical channel. Several types of machines will make the channel as the sewing is done. The channel can be closed and the stitches are well protected. And there is no real risk of a loose or flapping channel. The closed vertical channel is only barely visible and requires no glue or cement.

    What is shown in the photo is a different kind of channel--one that has also been cut by a machine. It can be done by hand and sometimes is, but esp. for production work, such laborious attention would be impractical. When done correctly the outsoles can be sewn by a machine as in BS's photo and then the channel will be glued down. The channel cover is usually pretty thin and the glue is usually some variation of wheat paste, potato flour or even animal glue. These glues are not stable in moist conditions and when the channel cover is laid back down the leather is often moist. The stitches are nigh on invisible initially and well protected, but not for long...as can be seen.

    The typical hand cut outsole channel is cut at an angle from some point close to, or at, the edge of the outsole. This is a very good solution but is the most time intensive. The outsole is generally sewn by hand and the channel closed by hand. Because the leather covering the stitches is much thicker, the channel tends to stay closed. Glues are used as a second or third line of defense rather than a first.The stitches are well protected, entirely unseen, and all other things being equal, the hand cut, angled channel will afford the longest wear.

    Even so, eventually all methods leave the stitches exposed as the leather wears away.

    A good leather cement (there's a difference between traditional glues and cements) will remedy the problem. Superglue will work but it is overkill and will stiffen the leather and make it brittle.

    --
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  7. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    ^^ DWFII - that is really great info, thanks. do yo have any personal recs for a specific type/brand of leather cement? ^^


    thanks, i am trying to a find a place that has some. also, not sure how to clamp it while it dries. dont want to crush the toe, but it will need pressure till the cement dries.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  8. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    If you use a leather cement you will not need to clamp. Leather cement is typically a neoprene based contact cement. You will need to hammer the channel cover down, firmly however.

    If you are in the States, Barge is the most readily available...in 4(?) ounce tubes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  9. mktitsworth

    mktitsworth Senior member

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    Thanks DWF, insightful as always. Thanks very much!
     
  10. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    thank you very much for the rec. much appreciated.
     
  11. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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  12. SoGent

    SoGent Senior member

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    right here, for now
  13. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, that's the product. It used to come in a red and yellow tube but they recently revised the formula to use methyl-ethyl ketone as a solvent. So don't go huffing it.

    There is also a water based/water solved neoprene contact cement on the market...can be found in Lowes, etc., http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=754259a9-824a-4f42-bee4-b302917369ea. It is used for placing and adhering formica countertopping. Don't think it comes in small tubes.

    Also Titan DX ...that's what I use.
     
  14. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Learning something new from DWFII and Bengal-S every day!
     
  15. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    most excellent. thank you. i bought the tupe from amazon, and hope it does the trick. again, thank you very much for all your expert help. very kind of you.
     
  16. SuitedDx

    SuitedDx Senior member

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    I've used the cement on sock liners come loose and it works well. I'm sure using it on the soles will work just as well. Another reason to get those $3 toe taps. :)
     
  17. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    good to know, and lol, i do plan on grabbing some toe taps.
     
  18. ThinkDerm

    ThinkDerm Senior member

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    photos of that?
     
  19. Harrydog

    Harrydog Senior member

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    $3 toe taps on a $1,200 pair of shoes?

    Get the inset metal toe taps (that sets me back $35 at BNelson/VIP shoes.) A much cleaner look than the glued, stapled, or nailed on taps.
     
  20. othertravel

    othertravel Senior member

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    Based on the comments, it sounds like some people experienced peeling, while others did not.

    Does this mean that the shoes that peeled are defective in some way? That is, why are some of the shoes peeling on their first wear?
     

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