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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, e

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. gazman70k

    gazman70k Senior member

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    It should be noted that I am certain that RTW bench made shoes are machine lasted and machine welted.

    However, I do not know if this applies for MTO, which may be hand lasted and machine welted.

    Perhaps the youngster with the wild hair at G&G could clarify.
     


  2. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It should be noted that I am certain that RTW bench made shoes are machine lasted and machine welted.

    However, I do not know if this applies for MTO, which may be hand lasted and machine welted.

    Perhaps the youngster with the wild hair at G&G could clarify.


    I see no reason why MTO would be hand lasted as opposed to RTW. As far as I am concerned MTO is RTW with user input. The MTO markup isn't nearly enough to take hand lasting into account.
     


  3. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    This approach is as close to hand making as it gets since it replicates the exact same process of hand lasting and hand welting.
    Compared to what? It may be the next best thing...or not...but it does not replicate the exact same process in either case. I admire the hell out of G&G shoes but real is real. The processes are not the same from nuance to nevermind and any attempt to make it seem so is simply disingenuous. If Goodyear welting is so good let it stand on its own. Let it be advertised and hyped...Machine Welted!! Machine Lasted!!...as a technique with its own intrinsic value and not as a substitute for hand welting.
     


  4. gazman70k

    gazman70k Senior member

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    Compared to what? It may be the next best thing...or not...but it does not replicate the exact same process in either case. I admire the hell out of G&G shoes but real is real. The processes are not the same from nuance to nevermind and any attempt to make it seem so is simply disingenuous. If Goodyear welting is so good let it stand on its own. Let it be advertised and hyped...Machine Welted!! Machine Lasted!!...as a technique with its own intrinsic value and not as a substitute for hand welting.
    There is no disingenuous on anyone's part as I noted that Tony and Dean have never ever passed of their RTW as hand-made shoes. Perhaps I misapplied the word "exactly" for which I stand corrected by yourself. Furthermore, there was no implicit or explicit notion that this was a substitute for hand welting nor is it better. As you know, the hand welting of a shoe takes an extend length of time of which the machines perform in a mere matter of seconds. Regardless, I admire your defense of the true hand-work that goes into hand-made shoes, which was the point I was trying to emphasise, that is many firms misuse and abuse the term hand-made. Additionally, I thank you for challenging the comparison, to which this instance would refer to a machine-based construction technique, like Blake.
     


  5. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    There is no disingenuous on anyone's part as I noted that Tony and Dean have never ever passed of their RTW as hand-made shoes. Perhaps I misapplied the word "exactly" for which I stand corrected by yourself. Furthermore, there was no implicit or explicit notion that this was a substitute for hand welting nor is it better. As you know, the hand welting of a shoe takes an extend length of time of which the machines perform in a mere matter of seconds. Regardless, I admire your defense of the true hand-work that goes into hand-made shoes, which was the point I was trying to emphasise, that is many firms misuse and abuse the term hand-made. Additionally, I thank you for challenging the comparison, to which this instance would refer to a machine-based construction technique, like Blake.
    Not sending you any flowers, but...I like you. You get it and you're not defensive...you understand that I wasn't singling you out personally (or G&G for that matter). Good on you, mate. And thanks for that. I think I just get so tired of manufactures trying to represent what they do as "as good as" or "the best" etc.. It's like the advertisements you used to see on TV now and again urging you to get your mother (sister, wife, girlfriend) a purse made of "genuine faux leather."
     


  6. gazman70k

    gazman70k Senior member

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    I see no reason why MTO would be hand lasted as opposed to RTW. As far as I am concerned MTO is RTW with user input. The MTO markup is nearly enough to take hand lasting into account.

    The caveat exist as I do not know the answer. Rather than speculate, I lay bare my ignorance.

    Not sending you any flowers, but...I like you. You get it and you're not defensive...you understand that I wasn't singling you out personally (or G&G for that matter). Good on you, mate. And thanks for that.

    I think I just get so tired of manufactures trying to represent what they do as "as good as" or "the best" etc.. It's like the advertisements you used to see on TV now and again urging you to get your mother (sister, wife, girlfriend) a purse made of "genuine faux leather."


    Thank you.
     


  7. cdmoore1855

    cdmoore1855 Senior member

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    Not sending you any flowers, but...I like you. You get it and you're not defensive...you understand that I wasn't singling you out personally (or G&G for that matter). Good on you, mate. And thanks for that.

    I think I just get so tired of manufactures trying to represent what they do as "as good as" or "the best" etc.. It's like the advertisements you used to see on TV now and again urging you to get your mother (sister, wife, girlfriend) a purse made of "genuine faux leather."


    DWF

    When are we going to get you to Hong Kong for foot measuring ?
     


  8. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    Here is the lasting machine, which I was told is about 80 years old.

    [​IMG]


    Amazing those machines can last (no pun intended) that long. That thing must have eaten up gallons of WD-40 over the years!
     


  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    DWF When are we going to get you to Hong Kong for foot measuring ?
    Right after my clone matures and I shed this creaky old husk and I get a mind meld to the new body. Oh...and make my first million (making bespoke shoes, of course).[​IMG] Seriously, Scotland and the auld fief comes first.
     


  10. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    Amazing those machines can last (no pun intended) that long. That thing must have eaten up gallons of WD-40 over the years!

    Turn of the nineteenth century machinery (of any sort: woodworking, metal milling, ect) and up to the 1940s were designed and built to last forever. Everything was properly forged, hardenned and machined, or if castings were used, were of very heavy and careful nature. Aside from the CNC function that are available now on new machines everything else mechanical is inferior to the past and design to be cheap to build. Lots of sheet metal stampings, drawings and resistence weldings. Longevity is no longer part of the equation.
     


  11. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    Right after my clone matures and I shed this creaky old husk and I get a mind meld to the new body. Oh...and make my first million (making bespoke shoes, of course).[​IMG] Seriously, Scotland and the auld fief comes first.
    DW, completely random question, but how much alligator skin would you need to make a pair of shoes? If its a custom project and you supply the skin - US size 9.5.
     


  12. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    Turn of the nineteenth century machinery (of any sort: woodworking, metal milling, ect) and up to the 1940s were designed and built to last forever. Everything was properly forged, hardenned and machined, or if castings were used, were of very heavy and careful nature. Aside from the CNC function that are available now on new machines everything else mechanical is inferior to the past and design to be cheap to build. Lots of sheet metal stampings, drawings and resistence weldings. Longevity is no longer part of the equation.

    +1

    Things were made to last in those days. That's sadly no longer the case.
     


  13. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    DW, completely random question, but how much alligator skin would you need to make a pair of shoes? If its a custom project and you supply the skin - US size 9.5.
    Spoo, I'd be nervous with anything less than two matching 28cm skins. I can see it taking less than all of the skins but to get matching vamps and have enough left over for quarters and counters I think you'd need at least that much. I've never measured the leather I use for a calf skin shoe...not in centimeters, not in this fashion...simply because you're not limited with calf like you are with alligator. But it takes two 30 cm skins with wide clear throats...meaning sometimes you're not always gonna get wide clear throats and will have to order a third skin...to make a pair of boots with the foot only in gator. All that said I wouldn't use the tail...or so little of it as to be insignificant. I just don't think that tail is of high enough aesthetic (or functional) quality to give to a bespoke customer. But probably most manufacturers would and if you did that you might get three pair out of four skins or something along those lines.
     


  14. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    You are one of the best assets to this forum, thanks for the info. [​IMG]
     


  15. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    ^ He is indeed.
     


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