Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, e

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. SirGrotius

    SirGrotius Senior member

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    Looking at picking up a pair of G&G (or investing in a pair, really!).

    I'm in dire need of black captoes, which are a lacunae in my collection.

    I have a few questions:


    • I trend toward fashion forward, so want to do the DG70 last. Is that the most "modern" of the lasts?
    • Are G&G shoes goodyear constructed?
    • What is the heel height of their oxfords? I heel people say they're higher than normal, does that mean 1.25"? 1.5" may be extreme for me. 1" too boring!
    • I'm having trouble finding a pair of black oxfords with some more detailing (I'm blanking on the name, broguing but not wingtips)...do they make something like the St James II Black Calf in the DG70?

    Thanks!!
     


  2. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    please to bring back to full luster for my heath. kthnx.

    awesome pants btw :slayer:
     


  3. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    There is authority and there is authority. And there are people who know a considerable amount about any particular subject. FWIW, BengalStripe knows a lot about shoes and shoemaking...just nothing that gives him real insight. Or the impulse/basis to consider, and question premises. Especially rote or assumed premises.

    And I'm not denying anyone the full measure of "authority" that they deserve. But that's as far as it goes. There are hierarchies of authority.

    Just as with the teacher and the art critic, it is too easy to misinterpret what you're seeing, or think you're seeing, unless you actually "been there and done that."

    It is not hard...especially in light of the historical frequency of it actually happening...to imagine some fatuous art critic ascribing motivations or even a particular "vision" to an artist that the artist simply never considered. Even to the point of dismissing any contrary or bemused statements made by the artist.

    And you know what? To do that demeans and disrespects the artist and even Art, itself, as much or moreso than it demeans the critic (even given that the critic doesn't realize how much they've demeaned themselves).

    Surely the artist himself has the better claim to being an authority on his own work, or even on "art" in general, than the critic.

    And I'm not saying that the artist can't be wrong...just as I think (my opinion only) that Delos is wrong about some things such as iron nails. I would argue with him about it...but I would respect his answers and his choices. Because I know they are informed by more than hearsay.

    There are hierarchies of authority, of credibility...even temperance.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012


  4. JonathanCWalker

    JonathanCWalker Senior member

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    Thanks they are my own [​IMG] Chalk strip flannel from J&J Minnis.
     


  5. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    DWFII, what's your issue with iron nails, and does it include any metalic nail, even those that are immune to corrosion? I realise iron nails can corrode badly and stain the inner soles as well as loose grip when they swell (rust) and subsequently crumble. But what about a properly hardenned brass/bronze nail (I know these often have lower yield strengths) or stainless steel (316 or similar) nail?

    You may have covered this already bit I can't locate it specifically.
     


  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    You're right, iron nails rust. And rust is effectively a "slow fire." When an iron nail comes into contact with a vegetable tanned leather such as an insole, there is some sort of intense chemical reaction that takes place...whether it is due to actual heat or not, I don't know. In any case, the leather around the nail first discolours then starts turning brittle. I have seen heavily sweated shoes, even with a "protective" heel pad, literally crumble into so many cinders because of the action of the nail.

    Beyond that, any vertical attachment, tends to stiffen the shoe and prevent easy flexing. In the case of nails this is often extreme as the nail is not only rigid but the nail must be clinched against an iron plate thus compressing and further stiffening the leather around it. The upshot is that the nail tends to "work" in the socket until a great hole is created...at which time the nail loses all further efficacy.

    I often use brass nails in my infrequent repairs of RTW boots but even there the "working" occurs. Sidney Brinkerhof wrote a book entitled "Boots and Shoes of the Frontier" (I think that's the name of it) in which he details a long experiment done by the US government and the Quartermaster Corp exploring the pros and cons of various methods of attaching leather soles. Both nails and pegs were found wanting for a number of reasons...all relating to the rigidity of the attachment.

    Brass is preferable to iron, no question, and a case could even be made that used circumspectly...in the heels seat, etc....they are a reasonable approach. But brass nails are far more expensive than either pegs or iron tacks and far less available. Such limitations make iron nails the default even for some otherwise very conscientious makers.

    And a foundation material for other operations less concerned with quality.

    PS...brass coated nails (seen more frequently) don't get it despite the emollient that is applied to the user's conscience. The minute the brass coating is broken...as in when the point is clinched...the iron is exposed. Back to square one.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012


  7. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Why isn't DWFII dubiosly honored? :confused:
     


  8. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The fact that you would argue with a colleague. demonstrates that you do not respect Delos' (or anyone else's) choices. You would not discuss it, you would not question him, you would argue. An argument is not a conversation, is not a discourse. It is a combat, where each side aims to win the argument by convincing the other party that their position, opinion or way of doing something is the only correct one, hence the other party must be wrong. Any argument aims to have a winner unless it's inconclusive and both parties are so exhausted that they "agree to disagree".


    Doesn't patronage give insights? It might be a different insight than the actual producer's, nevertheless, do you claim 'Lorenzo the Magnificent' had no insights as far as art and artists was concerned. (No, I'm not comparing myself to Lorenzo, that position belongs to Jun Kuwana.) After all, every grocer (and every artisan) praises his stuff, how can you distinguish where the insight ends and sales pitch begins? There are not many artisans who question premises. The majority is quite happy to do that same thing in the same way, year-in-year-out, because they "have always done it like that."

    I presume if I agree with your opinions, that would be questioning premises, but if I disagree with you then I'm not questioning premises.
    Nice one! :D

    I'm a pragmatist (yes, my shoes have iron nails in the heel), I leave the dogmatism to others.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012


  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Oh BS, BS. It's just semantics. I have had a number of recent students from Europe...who have extolled the ability of Europeans to argue late into the night without any rancor. Perhaps "discuss" would be a better word but not the one my friends might use. And as far as that goes, your definition of "argue" might be properly descriptive of your own discourse but I don't accept it. Anytime one has an opinion that is contrary to another person's and expresses it, they are taking a position, arguing for a perspective, not against anyone else. The fact that you see it as combat or as a confrontation is your problem, not mine. And one that comes through clearly.

    For that matter, all discussion, unless it is one big ego stroke...is about pros and cons. About differing perspectives. Some of which are simply closer to the mark. If we all agreed about everything we would have anything to discuss.

    All you have to do is articulate a reason for accepting iron nails in your shoes. If it's laziness or denial...make the case. No problem. If there is a good sound, mechanical, even scientific, reason why it doesn't matter (aside from expediency or denial)...make the case. But if you can't make the case you shouldn't expect that people take you seriously. In fact, I suspect a case might be made that you're spreading misinformation.

    And someone will surely...someone ought to...take you to task for it.

    As for the rest, this "discussion" degenerates into speciousness rapidly. Easy to say, no one really believes it. I'm sure Lorenzo knew a lot more about art than most people of his time...more than most of this time. But did he know more than the fellow who worked with canvas and paints? Did he know what the artist had in mind? I doubt it. He might have been able to parrot what the artist told him but beyond that...nothing.

    Easy to say but no one really believes it--that's why we require new doctors to spend several years as a resident before allowing them full credentials. They need to see and experience the real world as opposed to the theoretical.

    Or what's written in Thornton.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012


  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    There's one other point that informs all of this: When you assume the mantle of "authority"...in order to give advice or to educate people (no matter the sincerity of your intention)...you have to take responsibility for what you say. And that means making very very sure...to the best of your ability...that you've got the facts straight. That you're not misleading people.

    I don't know how you do that without immersing yourself to some extent...not just in other people's writings or words but in the actuality, the experience, of what you're talking about. Otherwise...as mentioned...it's just rote parroting.

    In such circumstances, pragmatism doesn't cut it. Because pragmatism is always about easy choices, never about responsibility.
     


  11. iyorito

    iyorito Senior member

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    Dear JohnathanDWalker,

    Thank you for your kind patronage!

    When you want to have them resoled, do send them to us,
    and we will be able to take away all the creases away
    and polish them. Like new.

    And when you break in, do place two pencils horizontally
    at where the upper should flex and crease. When you do
    this, flex hard but carefully so that the uppers do not get
    scratched.

    This ritual should help crease beautifully and reduce chances
    of getting creases where you do not want them.

    Kind regards,

    Masaichi Hasegawa, Director
    Gaziano and Girling Limited
    [email protected]



    .
     


  12. iyorito

    iyorito Senior member

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    Dear SirGrotius,

    Thank you for your interest.

    You may want to try DG70 for the round toe but if you like square toe, you might
    fancy the DECO last.

    Our bench made shoes are all Goodyear Constructed.

    Heel height is 1.25in.

    You could freely choose a model and the last, for example, Black Calf St. James II in DG70.
    However, for Deco line and last, you can only choose from the Deco models (upper designs).

    Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at
    [email protected]

    Kind regards,

    Masaichi Hasegawa, Director,
    Gaziano and Girling Limited
     


  13. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Ask if they can do blake/rapid construction at an extra cost.
     


  14. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    interesting, indeed
     


  15. Nick A

    Nick A Affiliate Vendor

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    I can possibly help with my stock shoes. Do you know your G&G size?
     


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