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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, e

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    Right after my clone matures and I shed this creaky old husk and I get a mind meld to the new body. Oh...and make my first million (making bespoke shoes, of course).[​IMG] Seriously, Scotland and the auld fief comes first.
    DW, completely random question, but how much alligator skin would you need to make a pair of shoes? If its a custom project and you supply the skin - US size 9.5.
     
  2. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    Turn of the nineteenth century machinery (of any sort: woodworking, metal milling, ect) and up to the 1940s were designed and built to last forever. Everything was properly forged, hardenned and machined, or if castings were used, were of very heavy and careful nature. Aside from the CNC function that are available now on new machines everything else mechanical is inferior to the past and design to be cheap to build. Lots of sheet metal stampings, drawings and resistence weldings. Longevity is no longer part of the equation.

    +1

    Things were made to last in those days. That's sadly no longer the case.
     
  3. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    DW, completely random question, but how much alligator skin would you need to make a pair of shoes? If its a custom project and you supply the skin - US size 9.5.
    Spoo, I'd be nervous with anything less than two matching 28cm skins. I can see it taking less than all of the skins but to get matching vamps and have enough left over for quarters and counters I think you'd need at least that much. I've never measured the leather I use for a calf skin shoe...not in centimeters, not in this fashion...simply because you're not limited with calf like you are with alligator. But it takes two 30 cm skins with wide clear throats...meaning sometimes you're not always gonna get wide clear throats and will have to order a third skin...to make a pair of boots with the foot only in gator. All that said I wouldn't use the tail...or so little of it as to be insignificant. I just don't think that tail is of high enough aesthetic (or functional) quality to give to a bespoke customer. But probably most manufacturers would and if you did that you might get three pair out of four skins or something along those lines.
     
  4. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    You are one of the best assets to this forum, thanks for the info. [​IMG]
     
  5. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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  6. meister

    meister Senior member

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    Turn of the nineteenth century machinery (of any sort: woodworking, metal milling, ect) and up to the 1940s were designed and built to last forever. Everything was properly forged, hardenned and machined, or if castings were used, were of very heavy and careful nature. Aside from the CNC function that are available now on new machines everything else mechanical is inferior to the past and design to be cheap to build. Lots of sheet metal stampings, drawings and resistence weldings. Longevity is no longer part of the equation.

    The plain honest truth and wonderfully explained to boot! You have to wonder if the same principle had been put to work in the space probes whether there would have been any accidents.
     
  7. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    I argued over this topic (which Xenon explained so well) with a few hayseeds on another thread here who thought the machinery of the past didn't last as long as Xenon claims. Bunch of nitwits.

    I would take it slightly further than Xenon and say that at least some items were still being made to last right up until the 1960s and 70s, though they were by then much fewer in number.
     
  8. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    DW, completely random question, but how much alligator skin would you need to make a pair of shoes? If its a custom project and you supply the skin - US size 9.5.

    rule of thumb for calfskin is fourty square centimeters.
     
  9. Nicola

    Nicola Senior member

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    The plain honest truth and wonderfully explained to boot! You have to wonder if the same principle had been put to work in the space probes whether there would have been any accidents.

    If the same ideas had been used for space probes they would never have left the ground.

    1) Every machine left has been fixed over and over again. To the point some are more like George Washington's axe then the machine that was first built.

    2) All the crappy old machines died . Yes they used to make crap.

    3) The main reason many of these old machines are still around is nobody has the money to replace them.

    I'm all in favour of old tools but there were plenty of people building crap in the old days. There are people building good stuff today.
     
  10. culverwood

    culverwood Senior member

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    The tolerances which modern machinery works to are so much tighter than 40+ years ago that when you are making things to fit old cars the original drawings are just a starting point.

    A modern machine will most likely become obsolete because of the electronics within it not the materials of the machine itself. That is why some of the old stuff lasts so long it is purely mechanical.
     
  11. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    rule of thumb for calfskin is fourty square centimeters.

    Forty square centimetres?!? [​IMG]

    So you need a piece of calfskin 4 centimetres wide and 10 centimetres long (1 1/2 x 4 inches). - Is that sufficient for one shoe or a pair?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Those 28 cm of crocodile, which DWFII mentions , refer to the width, not the length: a 28 cm (11”) skin will be
    approximately 80 cm (32”) in length and a 34 cm (14”) wide skin will be about 100 cm (40”) in length.

    From two skins (which have to come from siblings, to provide a close match), there will be plenty of material left for small leather goods.
     
  12. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    Forty square centimetres?!? [​IMG] So you need a piece of calfskin 4 centimetres wide and 10 centimetres long (1 1/2 x 4 inches). - Is that sufficient for one shoe or a pair?
    ok, when i talked about this issue, the maker mentioned 40 sq cm. for both of us, it was totally clear that we talk about 40 x 40 cm. i never gave that a second thought. my fault.
     
  13. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    You are one of the best assets to this forum, thanks for the info. [​IMG]
    thanks for the kind words... [​IMG]
     
  14. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    If the same ideas had been used for space probes they would never have left the ground.

    1) Every machine left has been fixed over and over again. To the point some are more like George Washington's axe then the machine that was first built.

    2) All the crappy old machines died . Yes they used to make crap.

    3) The main reason many of these old machines are still around is nobody has the money to replace them.

    I'm all in favour of old tools but there were plenty of people building crap in the old days. There are people building good stuff today.


    I agree that the designs may have improved in many areas. Also this may be a case of the test of time erasing all the cheap stuff.

    All machines require maintenance but alot of the old stuff was just built with the philosophy that too strong doesn't break. Yes tolerances may have decrease (tighter) for alot of the factory mass produced items but certainly not universally. Also there are some drastic improvements in metallurgy but alot of this never seems to find itself in most newly produced items.

    TBH there are still some great machines being made. There is this company called General (don't confuse with the international line) that still makes wood working machinery to old specs. These machines will outperform and outlive anything in comparison. These are heavy beasts deigned for continuous production. They are not light and not made of sheet metal stampings. The parts are very tight and properly hardenned.

    The best example is with hand guns. There simply is no current production hand gun that is built as tight and with as much finesse as a Parrabellum (luger). The parabellum will continue (if protected from corrosion) when the Glock has died a thousand deaths. Now of course it is a nightmare to build properly and complicated.

    Also everywhere now you see plastics replace metal components. Why? because plastics can be cast very cheaply and NO, virtually all plastics have inferior strength to wieght ratioscompared to metals. If manufactures were seriously concerned with corrosion (reason often used to justify plastics) then there are a vast array of corrosion resistent alloys.

    Sorry I have just used enough machines to know that longevity no longer matters and production cost is #1 one.
     
  15. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    ^ Well said again, Xenon.

    Of course there was some crap made in the old days, as there are some very good pieces of machinery made today. But Xenon is right, more things were made to last longer back then than today. That's just the God's honest truth and nothing will change that. As Xenon rightly says, "longevity no longer matters, production cost is #1."
     
  16. Nicola

    Nicola Senior member

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    TBH there are still some great machines being made. There is this company called General (don't confuse with the international line) that still makes wood working machinery to old specs.


    Generals Canadian made stuff is (or at least was I haven't looked in years) great but how much of Generals stuff is aimed at high volume? A General cabinet saw is a hell of a lot better then a Delta contractor saw but in the old days a Norris plane was equally better then a Stanley (lets not even mention the low end stuff )

    But lets ignore the high volume stuff aimed at mega factories. Compare a General saw to the European saws . General isn't competing with those machines. The high end Euro saws far out class General. Of course they cost multiples of a General.
     
  17. meister

    meister Senior member

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    How come every builder/carpenter worth his salt Down Under uses an American Eastwing hammer. Does this happen anywhere else (sorry sort of off topic)?
     
  18. nutcracker

    nutcracker Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Hi Fellas!

    Just for fun, I did some translation (Japanese to English) from the new June edition of MENS'EX magazine. From those who haven't heard, those blasphemous editors dissected some of the most iconic dress shoes (JM Weston Golf, Green's Dover, Alden shell V-tip, and G&G St.James) to analyze their quality (JM Weston got the highest overall mark btw). Really quite a shame that non-Japanese can't appreciate the bloody sacrifices. My translation (and grammar) isn't pitch perfect, but should be understandable for most of you. I'm also attaching the original Japanese version for you to compare, as well as a more crisp version as an attached file.

    Been lurking here on this thread for a while, just thought I could contribute some. Enjoy [​IMG]




    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  20. Jorge

    Jorge Senior member

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    Terrific, thanks Nutcracker, what were the comments on the other shoes? What made the JMWs stand out?
     

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