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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, e

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. Nick A

    Nick A Senior member

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  2. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I cannot make the case one way or the other, only that all English makers (judging by Delos, maybe all the French Bottiers as well) use iron nails. Yes, I could ask him to use wooden pegs, but why, just because some bloke on the internet has said so? I did discuss it and he doesn't believe in your theory (to which you are entitled) but he is equally entitled to do it the traditional English way. Unless I have evidence. I would not demand from anyone to change their way of work. If I were a customer of Delos, I would not ask him to refrain from a sanding wheel, nor from using iron nails. Only if I am absolutely certain I wanted something made in a particular way. I would ask for it. (I wouldn't even ask Delos to use protective covers, although I would inspect the finished boots very closely.)



    I am not spreading misinformation. Which postings or statements were factually wrong? I have only posted the fact that English makers do not use sanding wheels without any judgement whether I consider this to right or wrong. You were the one to presumed some sinister motivation on my part.

    A number of your beliefs, pronounced ex cathedra, are not shared by the whole of the shoemaking fraternity. Is it misinformation to point that out?

    You can make your shoes whichever way you like, give others the same liberty before criticising them.



    The study of complicated interrelations between patron and the commissioned artist has become an established art-historical subject, ever since the publication of this seminal work:

    Frederick Antal Florentine Painting and its Social Background: The Bourgeois Republic before Cosimo de’ Medici’s Advent to Power: XIV and Early XV Centuries. London, 1948
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  3. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    All of the above...it's just so disingenuous. I was born in the night but not last night. If you weren't making a statement...ever so slyly (and yes, frankly, that's what I most object to in many of your postings)...why mention the fact that "the job will be done entirely by hand (with no sanding wheels in sight" at all? The statement sits starkly out there with virtually no connection to the rest of the post. From my perspective, this seems to be a modus operandi for you.


    Not at all but that's precisely what I was doing with regard to your "sanding wheels" remark. Or your assertion, some time back that an alligator shoe was all one piece. I didn't believe it then but was prepared to give the benefit of the doubt. And then as it turned out the shoe did have a seam at the side or back...back, IIRC. And you never acknowledged that you were in fact just as adamantly wrong as you thought you were right.

    Because you have never done this work you see things that aren't there. You jump to conclusions. And I'm not even sure that, in your lack of understanding, you can properly explain "my theories" on why iron nails are detrimental to whomever it is you run to to ask when you come up against something so out of your depth.

    My theories on iron and rust and iron's affect on leather are not theories but fact that have nothing to do with my being a shoemaker or the fact that I know about them. But pragmatism is 9/10ths denial anyway.

    Just as importantly, you don't speak for the whole of the shoemaking fraternity, nor even the English shoemaking fraternity...in fact, not being a shoemaker, yourself, you don't speak for any of the shoemaking fraternity.

    You can probably speak for patrons of shoemaking but how is that different from any one of a hundred others here on the forum who just happen to like shoes. And amongst that fraternity are a whole lot of people who are more concerned with boxes and appearance than substance and quality. Or the affect of iron on bark tanned leather.

    Well, speaking of misinformation...this puts me immediately in mind of the painting you posted trying to disprove June Swann's (another bona fide authority) assertion that there were no heels as we know them before the last quarter of the 16th century.

    PS...whoever it is you are consulting doesn't seem to mind having a "discussion" at a safe distance. But I don't care to deal with filtered information and second hand contrarians. If he can't...or won't...make the case and you can't (and you can't), then there is no case and nothing you or he can say has any weight. Nor ought it.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  4. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Here is the posting in question. I cannot see anything "ever so slyly". The 'entirely handmade, no sanding wheel' bit was added trying to explain why one pair of repairs was more than twice the price then the other.

    http://www.styleforum.net/t/236162/gaziano-girling-appreciation-shoo-porn-theard/3420#post_5413664

    I have not called the use of a sanding wheel "declasse" , that was you. I didn't know I had hit a nerve.



    I'm not 'consulting' anyone nor am I posting for anyone, but of course I do discuss issues with my closer and my maker. As we have been working together for almost four years, there is a mutual degree of trust. Of course they're both English and so steeped in the English tradition of making shoes.

    I'm just trying to say that there is more than one way to skin a cat (or make a shoe).


    With this, I take my leave from this conversation, bow out gracefully and let you have the last word (as you undoubtedly will).

    [​IMG]
     
  5. earthdragon

    earthdragon Senior member

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    With this, I take my leave from this conversation, bow out gracefully and let you have the last word (as you undoubtedly will).


    Thank FUK for that - I was becoming scared of any thread that had the word 'Shoe' in it - for Fear of stumbling into one of these epic pissing competitions....Just sayin'
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  6. iyorito

    iyorito Senior member

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    [
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2012
  7. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    exactly but how does this affect the fit, when it's not arresting? buyer already claimed that he's looking for a solution on this, not?


    no need to. they're looking for a good fit in the first place. this is not rocket science...


    i wanna see this, as everyone or at least me tries to prevent creasing due to a good fit(see above).

    i encourage you to work it out with mr. parker as he seems to love your shoes and deserves an excellent service, imo.
     
  8. rikod

    rikod Senior member

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    Oh no doubt at all, and it will be long.



    We are suppose to learn from this shit, but now I run as far as I can, all these fu***ng technicalities suck the life and soul of everything.

    oh! i love the shoes but sorry, they have metal nails, in 5 years they will rust and destroy my shoes!
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
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  9. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    Rikod,

    You might consider therapy for post traumatic stress disorder. :satisfied:
     
  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    How noble of you! And the very embodiment of innocence, as well.. Myself, I don't care for posturing of that sort--nor do I care who has the last word.

    But since you offered it to me, it is perhaps fitting that they be yours (if only to give the lie to innocence)..."I did discuss it and he doesn't believe in your theory"
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
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  11. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    Thank God! Now that Daddy and Daddy have called a truce all us little children can go to bed and get some sleep! :smarmy:
     
  12. rikod

    rikod Senior member

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    You may be right but It's not totally out of control and I think I can handle it by myself for now.
     
  13. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    You get a B for Bravery!
     
  14. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Gee! And here we thought you were...kind of...grown-up, capable of entertaining yourselves without throwing a temper tantrum when you weren't getting enough attention.

    You know...starting and having separate conversations with other people, ignoring conversations you weren't interested in, blowing your own noses and taking care of "big business" without having someone to hold your hand or tell you when to wipe.

    .
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  15. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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  16. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    There, there. Disagreements among adults happen sometimes. It's not your fault.
     
  17. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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  18. Nick A

    Nick A Senior member

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    Okay. Here are some more of why we love this thread:


    [​IMG]
     
  19. rikod

    rikod Senior member

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    You are right (honestly), that is true really and is very simple. I still think that when people get too detailed and technical into the construction of things the fun is spoiled, specially if one don't understand well and don't put things in perspective or don't have access to the best of the best. It happened to me when I was into audiophile stuff ( I'm still are but I'm normal now I think), I read and learned about everything, even the construction of the tweeters, weight of equipment, width of the plates, noise of the cd tray, construction of cables and so on. I was not enjoying the music anymore.

    Regards
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  20. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    But you still carry some of it with you--the audiophile knowledge--don't you? And you or someone you regard kindly will benefit from your knowledge somewhere down the line. And you'ld be poorer for never having made that journey.

    Over forty years of trying to master a difficult and complex Trade (an old Navy electronics wizard ...built his own TV from scratch...once told me he thought shoemaking was more complicated than his work) I have found that we learn in jumps and starts. We learn well for a while and then we plateau. It doesn't do to push too hard at that point.

    Despite tiffs like this...which, unlike so many others here, never degenerated to adolescent name calling and profanity and everything but rabid, frenzied snarling and inarticulate grunts (sometimes that too)...we all tend to forget that we are not the stars of this movie and that there are other people here. People who may be interested in the technical stuff. May not know any of it. Who are just at the beginning of their journey and who are interested.

    The devil is, however, in the details...both in a good way and a bad way. And it's the details that will kill you.

    PS...sorry to make this longer...but someone once told me "we're all just serving time." You can sit in your cell and masturbate...doesn't take much thought or energy...or you can immerse yourself in something worthwhile. Just sayin'...
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012

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