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Game of Thrones BOOK Thread: Spoil Away.

AldenPyle

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Even if they sent the right skull, I think it is pretty clear that Qyburn has at the very least Frankenstein'd his body as a result of all of the human experiments that got him kicked out of being a Maester.
I would imagine if Melisandre brings jon back, it would be more like Beric and less like Zombie-Cat. Beric was pretty normal in red-god-ressurection mode while Cat is a mix of not being able to speak due to her head being cut off and being very angry and bitter at everyone. Jon just got knifed up and would probably act a little more rational.


This is basically right.
1. FrankenSandor is supposed to fight for Cersei in Trial by Combat with the champion of the Church. Only person in Westeros who might possibly beat Sandor is Gregor. Gregor now with the Church. Connect dots.

2. ADWD established that skin changers jump to nearest animal immediately before death. Jon will jump to Ghost. Body will be resurrected by Melisandre. Jon can jump back to body w/o any loss of soul. Conveniently, his "lifetime" obligation to N. Watch is paid in full.
 
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Reynard369

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This is basically right.
1. FrankenSandor is supposed to fight for Cersei in Trial by Combat with the champion of the Church. Only person in Westeros who might possibly beat Sandor is Gregor. Gregor now with the Church. Connect dots.
2. ADWD established that skin changers jump to nearest animal immediately before death. Jon will jump to Ghost. Body will be resurrected by Melisandre. Jon can jump back to body w/o any loss of soul. Conveniently, his "lifetime" obligation to N. Watch is paid in full.

You've got the names backward, but yeah.
 

otc

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This is basically right.
1. FrankenSandor is supposed to fight for Cersei in Trial by Combat with the champion of the Church. Only person in Westeros who might possibly beat Sandor is Gregor. Gregor now with the Church. Connect dots.
2. ADWD established that skin changers jump to nearest animal immediately before death. Jon will jump to Ghost. Body will be resurrected by Melisandre. Jon can jump back to body w/o any loss of soul. Conveniently, his "lifetime" obligation to N. Watch is paid in full.

Hmm, didn't think about his lifetime obligation. That is quite interesting...especially if the rumors of his true parentage are correct.
 

L.R.

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This is basically right.
1. FrankenSandor is supposed to fight for Cersei in Trial by Combat with the champion of the Church. Only person in Westeros who might possibly beat Sandor is Gregor. Gregor now with the Church. Connect dots.
2. ADWD established that skin changers jump to nearest animal immediately before death. Jon will jump to Ghost. Body will be resurrected by Melisandre. Jon can jump back to body w/o any loss of soul. Conveniently, his "lifetime" obligation to N. Watch is paid in full.


Hmm, didn't think about his lifetime obligation. That is quite interesting...especially if the rumors of his true parentage are correct.

That's the only way out of his vows in my mind, if he truly is brought back by Melisandre, I don't like the idea of him being indebted to her, or the Red God. Is there some soul-degradation happening when resurrected confirmed? The body jumping would be a great way to avoid it, and well set up.
 

scurvyfreedman

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So...the moral of the story is that all fantasy movies look the same in black and white?

Sure doesn't look like Rhaegar.

Common theory, which is the moral of the story:
At the Tourney at Harrenhal there appeared a Mystery Knight (The Knight of the Laughing Tree aka a Weirwood) to avenge the wrong done to Howland Reed by three squires. Reed is a bannerman of the Starks. The Mystery Knight was slight of stature and a very good horse"man." The Crannogmen, including Reed are poor horsemen. Lyanna Stark was renowned for her riding.

Mad King Aerys ordered Crown Prince Rhaegar to find the Mystery Knight who had withdrawn after defeating the lords fo the three squires.

Rhaegar wins the tourney and crowns Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty, bypassing his own wife Princess Elia of Dorne. Had Rhaeger been unhorse by Ser Barristan Selmy of the Kingsguard in the final tilt, Barristan would have named Ashara Dayne the Queen of Love and Beauty - in his words, avoiding Robert's Rebellion. Lyanna was betrothed to Robert Baratheon. Rhaegar presented her with a wreath of her favorite flowers - Blue Roses.

Rhaegar subsequently kidnaps and rapes Lyanna; or they run away with each other. Lord Rickard Stark and his eldest son and heir Brandon ride to Kings Landing to demand the release of Lyanna. Rhaegar is not present. King Aerys has Lord Stark burned alive while his son hangs himself trying to free his father. Robert, Jon Arryn, and newly minted Lord Eddard Stark rebel against Aerys. Eddard who replaced Brandon as betrothed to Catelyn Tully eldest daughter of Lord of Riverrun making four of the seven Kingdoms in open rebellion against the Iron Throne. The Westerlands stay out of the fighting b/c Tywin Lannister was dismissed as Hand and is sulking at home. The Greyjoys stay at home in the Iron Islands. Only the Crownlands, Reach, and Dorne support the Crown.

Battle of the Bells... blah, blah, blah

Rhaegar and Robert meet in the battle of the Trident. Rhaegar is dispatched. Only three Kingsguard are with the Crown Prince. Ser Barristan is critically wounded defending Rhaegar, but survives and is pardoned by Robert once he takes the Crown. Only one is in Kings Landing with the King. Three are at large. Shouldn't they be protecting the Royals. The Kingthlayer Jaime Lannister reddens his White Cloak killing Aeyrs as Tywin's forces sack KL. Ned arrives and takes KL for Robert. Princess Elia is raped and killed by Gregor Clegane. Her children are killed as well. Mayhaps.

Then Ned his bannermen to search for Lyanna. Three Kingsguard are at the Tower of Joy with Lyanna. Why are the Kingsguard protecting her. B/c she's pregnant with Rhaegar's legitimate heir. Targaryens practice polygamy. Lyanna and Rhaeger were married and Jon Snow is the progeny. Ned finds her in childbed (bed of blood). She dies as a result of the birth. Ned promises never to tell anyone and returns to the North with his bastard child. If she's not with the heir, the Kingsguard should be on Dragonstone with Viserys and Danerys who are next in line. Rhaegar's kidnapped girlfriend or rape victim is nothing. Rhaegar's heir is the King.

Ned returns Ser Arthur Dayne's Sword of the Morning to his sister, Ashara Dayne who throws herself from her window to her death. No one ever sees her dead- Septa Lamore anyone?. Dayne would have killed Ned without Howland Reed's intervention. Reed owed one to Lyanna- see above. Doesn't say that Reed killed Dayne, just that he prevented Dayne from killing Ned. Ned also reported that Dayne is the truest Knight he had ever known. Implication is that he was protecting the King (eldest living son of the eldest dead son of the now dead King - unless Aegon is real), but realizing that he can't rally a realm around a newborn, is willing to sacrifice is own life to protect the King. In this case, commits ritual suicide so his death can be part of Ned's cover story for protecting Jon Snow. Dead men don't tell tales. Reed is the one who brokers the deal after the other combatants at the ToJ are killed and while Ned and Dayne are in combat.

Ned's famous honor doesn't make any sense that he would forsake his new wife and father a bastard child. But, if Robert knew that Jon was Rhaegar's son, he would have him killed, so Ned must keep the secret and raise the child as his own. Ned is disgusted that Rhaegar's other children were killed at Tywin's orders. He'll do anything to prevent the killing of children. See his stepping down as Hand upon learning that Robert is sending hired knives to kill Danerys (who is 13 at the time).

Jon is the Prince Who Was Promised, the Song of Ice and Fire (Ice-Stark/Fire-Targaryen). There is a passage/prophecy that refers to a Blue Rose in a chink in the Wall. Jon will likely be placed in an Ice Cell in the Wall in his current state, thus the Blue Rose in the Wall.

Targaryens have weaker traits. When they intermarry the blond hair is less likely. See King Aegon's uncles, cousins, and all of the Targaryen bastards (Bloodraven and the Blackfyres). Jon Snow looks like a Stark. But, all of the other Stark children, other than Arya look like Tullys, so Starks are rarely dominant.
 
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scurvyfreedman

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That's the only way out of his vows in my mind, if he truly is brought back by Melisandre, I don't like the idea of him being indebted to her, or the Red God. Is there some soul-degradation happening when resurrected confirmed? The body jumping would be a great way to avoid it, and well set up.

Melisandre looked for Azor Ahai reborn, and the fires only showed her Snow. Could mean that she saw Jon Snow. Could mean that she didn't see Stannis b/c of all of the Snow.

That said, she also said she saw Jon, man, wolf, and then man again. My guess is he wargs into Ghost, his body is limp and he's presumed dead, put in an Ice Cell, and then wargs back into his body. Man, wolf, man. And, awakens as the Ice Dragon when Melisadre tries to burn his body and he doesn't burn, because he's a Targaryen. Only problem with that is that his hand burned when he protected LC Mormont from the wight.

And Bloodraven warged Mormont's raven who calls him Snow. King Jon Snow. The other ravens call him Snow, but King Jon Snow is a bit over the top. Bloodraven wargs ravens like it's home.
 

scurvyfreedman

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Am I the only ASOIAF fan in the world who prefers AFFC to ADWD?

AFfC was much better for me the second time I read the series. I really don't like the Iron Islanders. Too many chapters from them. Just bored me to death.
 

javyn

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Which book does Cersei get raped by that brown bear again?
 

Rambo

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scurvyfreedman

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cool, thanks. anyone know when the expected release date is?

No date announced, other than the 4th in the Dunk and Egg series will be released first. ADwD paperback will be out with the show at the end of March. Love the cross marketing.

The Dunk and Egg may be out for Christmas 2013.

Winds of Winter, I think we're looking at mid-2014 if we're lucky. And George's body doesn't give out. He's like a combination of Doran Martell and Magister Illyrio.
 

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