FYI Limited Ben Silver C&J Sale

[norcaltransplant]

A few C&J models on sale at Ben Silver.
HG for $262.50 in narrow widths.

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by norcaltransplant

A few C&J models on sale at Ben Silver.
HG for $262.50 in narrow widths.
Norcal, great tip; thanks for the heads-up. Do you or anyone else know for certain that the C&Js that Ben Silver sell as "handgrade shoes" are, in fact, made to C&J Handgrade standards? For example, the one shoe that I would be most interested in is a monk shoe Ben Silver calls the Mortimer. In its externals, it more closely resembles the Benchgrade Malvern than it does the Handgrade Savile, and its color, tan, is not one offered on either with the C&J brand. Does anyone know the arrangement Ben Silver has with C&J with respect to these shoes?

 

[NoVaguy]

C&J Handgrades do come in tan - see

http://www.pediwear.co.uk/detail.php?stock_ID=996
&
http://www.pediwear.co.uk/detail.php?stock_ID=230
&
http://www.pediwear.co.uk/detail.php?stock_ID=227

As for the rest of the questions, I don't know the answers. I do note that the double buckle monstrap looks very similar, if not identical, to the Polo double buckle monkstrap that is allegedly a C&J handgrade.

 

[Duveen]

After inspecting them in person, I'd say that a good share of the Ben Silver 'handgrades' are benchgrade shoes. The Mortimer is definitely not the Savile in last, and I can't recall if the soles are channeled or not...

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Duveen

After inspecting them in person, I'd say that a good share of the Ben Silver 'handgrades' are benchgrade shoes. The Mortimer is definitely not the Savile in last, and I can't recall if the soles are channeled or not...
That's very helpful. I notice that there is some price variation in the C&J shoes at Ben Silver, with some going for $495 (perhaps these are benchgrades) and others (like the Mortimer) for $595. I would assume, I guess, that the higher-priced ones would be like the Handgrades, but who knows? Do you have a good recollection of the shape of the Mortimer? It sounds as if you feel it's not made on the 337 last (like the Savile). How does it differ in shape from the Savile?

 

[von Rothbart]

The Mortimer looks like 330 last to me.

 

[NoVaguy]

Most of the $595 shoes are handgrades (I think the only exception is the jodphur), the $400-495 shoes are benchgrades. For most shoes you can cross-correlate by checking pediwear. Ben Silver keeps the same model name as C&J.

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by NoVaguy

Most of the $595 shoes are handgrades (I think the only exception is the jodphur), the $400-495 shoes are benchgrades. For most shoes you can cross-correlate by checking pediwear. Ben Silver keeps the same model name as C&J.
The problem in cross-checking is finding anywhere else the Ben Silver models of C&Js that have different names than the current C&J-branded production. In other words, there doesn't seem to be a C&J-branded Mortimer anywhere other than Ben Silver to look at and get more information about it. Or is there? Have any of you guys ever seen the Mortimer anywhere else?

 

[TKDKid]

Originally Posted by Roger

The problem in cross-checking is finding anywhere else the Ben Silver models of C&Js that have different names than the current C&J-branded production. In other words, there doesn't seem to be a C&J-branded Mortimer anywhere other than Ben Silver to look at and get more information about it. Or is there? Have any of you guys ever seen the Mortimer anywhere else?
I'll have to check my old C&J catalogues to confirm, but I seem to remember the Mortimer being a discontinued (in the UK at least) Handgrade model made on the 330 last.

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by von Rothbart

The Mortimer looks like 330 last to me.
Good suggestion, von Rothbart; I think you are likely right.

Originally Posted by TKDKid

I'll have to check my old C&J catalogues to confirm, but I seem to remember the Mortimer being a discontinued (in the UK at least) Handgrade model made on the 330 last.
I'd appreciate that.

This would make sense, as my C&J Handgrade Downings (full brogues in burgundy) that I got from Ben Silver a year and a half ago are on the 330 last, one they seem to have retained in the C&J-branded Handgrade collection for only the Whitehall and Rosebery models. The Downing was replaced by the similar (except for last) Clifford.

 

[aportnoy]

Originally Posted by Roger

Good suggestion, von Rothbart; I think you are likely right.

I'd appreciate that.

This would make sense, as my C&J Handgrade Downings (full brogues in burgundy) that I got from Ben Silver a year and a half ago are on the 330 last, one they seem to have retained in the C&J-branded Handgrade collection for only the Whitehall and Rosebery models. The Downing was replaced by the similar (except for last) Clifford.

The Lawrence is also definitely a handgrade model on the 330 as I just picked one up recently.

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

The Lawrence is also definitely a handgrade model on the 330 as I just picked one up recently.
Aportnoy, the Lawrence is a great-looking shoe. I considered it, but declined because it is so close to my EG Ashbys, right down to the handstitched toe/apron seam and the semi-hidden split-toe seam, and the color--which looks much like the EG Chestnut, at least from the Ben Silver picture. The Lawrence seems to have super antiquing, something that most of the Handgrades don't have. The 330 last, as it is employed with the Lawrence, looks a bit like the EG 606 last from the picture. Or, in the flesh, is it more like the 202? In my C&J Handgrade Downings, the effect seems like a cross between the EG 202 last and the JLobb 7000 (with greater width at the ball of the foot).

 

[aportnoy]

Originally Posted by Roger

Aportnoy, the Lawrence is a great-looking shoe. I considered it, but declined because it is so close to my EG Ashbys, right down to the handstitched toe/apron seam and the semi-hidden split-toe seam, and the color--which looks much like the EG Chestnut, at least from the Ben Silver picture. The Lawrence seems to have super antiquing, something that most of the Handgrades don't have. The 330 last, as it is employed with the Lawrence, looks a bit like the EG 606 last from the picture. Or, in the flesh, is it more like the 202? In my C&J Handgrade Downings, the effect seems like a cross between the EG 202 last and the JLobb 7000 (with greater width at the ball of the foot).

Right you are Roger. The Lawrence is quite similar to Ashby and I would say the toe shape more resembles the 202 than the 606. I have the Yardley on the 606 and can post a comparison if you would like.

 

[TKDKid]

Originally Posted by Roger

The problem in cross-checking is finding anywhere else the Ben Silver models of C&Js that have different names than the current C&J-branded production. In other words, there doesn't seem to be a C&J-branded Mortimer anywhere other than Ben Silver to look at and get more information about it. Or is there? Have any of you guys ever seen the Mortimer anywhere else?
Found them - they're in C&J's 2002-2003 retail & mail order catalogue.

 

[Roger]

Great, TKDKid, thanks. That really clarifies things. It's interesting that the Ben Silver collection of C&Js is, to some extent anyway, made up of earlier C&J-branded Handgrades. For example, the Savile has now replaced the Mortimer. Perhaps when they decided to make almost all the Handgrades on the 337 last, they decided as well to change the names of the corresponding shoes--e.g., Clifford for Downing, Savile for Mortimer, etc. I wonder why Ben Silver isn't selling the 337-last versions.