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Future of Italian Men's Wear in U.S.A.

gianluca

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Originally Posted by JLibourel
A little off topic, but I think most if not all at of Macy's Alfani stuff is made in Korea. Before my tastes got more refined I bought one Alfani suit, made in Korea of Italian fabric. It really isn't a bad suit for the money, though. I actually like it better than the one John W. Nordstrom suit I purchased in that pre-enlightened era. I also have two made-in-Korea Alfani sport coats that are going to the Goodwill to make room for my next Chan orders when they arrive.

It is perhaps significant that many low- to middle-end marketers (roughly MW to Macy's) will give their house brands Italian names--"Alfani," "Tasso Elba," "Versini" and whatnot--to create a perception of quality.

Another indicator of the perception "Italian=style and quality": One of my stepson's fraternity brothers was admiring the necktie my boy had borrowed from me. When he saw that bore a "Made in Italy" label, he said, "Oh, no wonder it's good." The fact that it also bore the name "Brioni" was of no moment to him at all!



It appens everywhere in the world. From China to Germany to Brasil. You have hundreds of fake Italian names for everykind of products. Isn't it incredible? And we, Italians, do not realize what kind of allure is surrounding our Lifestyle. Even worse, in some cases we destroy it.

In my opinion everything is related to the fact that Italians are often egocentric, they what to distingish themseft with the best or with an exclusive garment. In other countries this is rare.
 

antirabbit

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Gianluca,
If you are asking about Zegna or Armani stores in reference to having an added "italian experience" the answer is no.
I have shopped in Italy, and the shops here are nothing like it there.

That could differentiate things here better in the states.

Most people here will buy the quality where ever they can get it and have very good tailors they can bring their clothing to in order to get the perfect fit.
That is the ones that can not afford to have it made bespoke or mtm.

For example, I love R. Caruso suits and sport coats, and will buy them every opportunity I can, but will have them tailored exstensively to get the right fit, in the end they are glorious.

The Italian brands that do seem to matter are:
Attolini
Borrelli
Brioni
Isaia
Rubinacci
Canterelli
Kiton

Due mainly to the cuts, the fabrics, and construction. I am sure I have left many out and these are all mainly Neopolitan....go figure.
 

gianluca

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Dear Antirabbit,

thanks for the explanation, I understand how important the tailor is, and it's importance is growing with the value of the garment.

You mentioned many Italian products, good products. But, they are not brands.
Let me underline this difference, because I think it impacts on the consumers.
Most of the times the brand's consumer pays not enough attention to the quality of the garments or to what is behind (is it a good garment? where is it made?).


I like Caruso too, but despite the name they are in the beautiful north Italian Parma!
All the products that you mentioned to me are very good and looking like traditional Italian family businesses.
I hope that they can be all succesfull, being like mouses agains dinosaures. They all need a strong support by the local retailers. Instead of selling they should educate the consumer, but it is for sure hareder.
 

SoCal2NYC

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Originally Posted by The_Foxx
I think Made in Italy is still important for the high-end brands of quality clothing (Brioni/ Kiton/ Borrelli/ Isaia/ Attolini, etc.) and that's important for the consumer who knows his stuff. Myself, I look for certain brands of clothing because I've come to expect a certain level of quality from these italian companies.


So by that token would you then trust the same companies to uphold their current level if they were to move to E.Europe, N.Africa or S.E.Asia?
 

antirabbit

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Originally Posted by gianluca
Dear Antirabbit,

thanks for the explanation, I understand how important the tailor is, and it's importance is growing with the value of the garment.

You mentioned many Italian products, good products. But, they are not brands.
Let me underline this difference, because I think it impacts on the consumers.
Most of the times the brand's consumer pays not enough attention to the quality of the garments or to what is behind (is it a good garment? where is it made?).


I like Caruso too, but despite the name they are in the beautiful north Italian Parma!
All the products that you mentioned to me are very good and looking like traditional Italian family businesses.
I hope that they can be all succesfull, being like mouses agains dinosaures. They all need a strong support by the local retailers. Instead of selling they should educate the consumer, but it is for sure hareder.



Gianluca,
What I was proposing is that each house (of suits and tailored clothing), offers its own distinct feel and image if you will. Brands or manufacturers, I do believe they are all made in Italy.
I think if Italian manufactuer is to continue to be valued and flourish in the U.S. they will need to distinguish themselves in a manner that adds to the experience of buying and owning that clothing.
Not an image that is created by marketing.
Heremes does this, even in the boutiques that are within other stores.

I have a dream of starting a store, very much like that found in IT, that has the individualized treatments, and the sharp, opinionated, and helpful eye that you also get.
There is a brand out of Minneapolis MN that attempted this, but also tried to keep the prices low, which I think detracted from its success.

I for one, will continue to buy most of my clothing from Italian manufacturers, until the price is too high, or an alternative that offers similar quality, construction, and style is available.
 

The_Foxx

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Originally Posted by SoCal2NYC
So by that token would you then trust the same companies to uphold their current level if they were to move to E.Europe, N.Africa or S.E.Asia?

nope-- I'd stop buying from them, I think. for me, those brands should really be the whole package (Brioni produces in the Abruzzo factories employing italian tailors, they sponsor the tailoring school/ train new tailors, and they pay their employees fairly well. same deal for kiton and the other high-brands mentioned.) I know these OTR brands don't touch great bespoke and english italian tailors, but OTR is really all I have access to.

I think there was a comment about Japan-- I have no issues buying casual/ streetwear made in Japan, but I don't want any tailored clothing that reads "made in japan/ korea/ taiwan," myself (this is getting more common at BB these days, especially dress shirts. pretty sure the black fleece items are made in USA, tho!)
 

OxxfordSJLINY

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Originally Posted by The_Foxx
nope-- I'd stop buying from them, I think. for me, those brands should really be the whole package (Brioni produces in the Abruzzo factories employing italian tailors, they sponsor the tailoring school/ train new tailors, and they pay their employees fairly well. same deal for kiton and the other high-brands mentioned.) I know these OTR brands don't touch great bespoke and english italian tailors, but OTR is really all I have access to.

Brioni, Kiton and off the rack/made to measure brands of this caliber, be it Italian, American, etcetera also can't touch great tailors located in America that are of the same caliber as Savile Row, Rubinacci, Caraceni and Campagna such as Chris Despos in Chicago, IL, William Fioravanti in New York City, NY and Frank Shattuck in Cazenovia, NY (which is an upscale suburb outside of Syracuse, NY).

FWIW, Frank Shattuck was originally located somewhere on Madison Ave. in NYC NY (one of the most upscale parts of all of the five boroughs of NYC NY) for many, many years before relocating to Cazenovia.

However, the OTR/MTM brands that you mention are still excellent overall if somewhat pricier than I personally think they should be.

Overall, you are still most definitely in a win/win situation for your suit purchases, Foxx.
 

SkinnyGoomba

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for me there is always an allure to Italian made clothing and shoes.

Even before i really knew anything about clothing, i had always thought Italian made clothing must be among the best.
 

antirabbit

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Case in point:
Despos tailored my Caruso suit = perfection.
I have not had a suit feel like this on me before. Now I have the method.
Buy great otr product, bring to Despos. Simple, and similar to all other equations, with the exception of his skill and taste, there is the X factor.

I am not at the point where I will be heading to Naples to throw down 10-15K on a couple of suits, one day, but not these present days, so I feel that this is a perfect way to get all the elements I am looking for.
Plus I seem to be built to wear OTR coats.
 

StylenotFashion

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I have long been a supporter, a fan, and even a supplier of several of the better brands discussed in these threads.

What I look for in my purchases today, is a quality value ratio that takes the following into account:
1. Fabric quality... Construction, hand, and coloring.
2. Styling, cut, and fit
3. Quality of the construction of the garment

Short of slave labor and child abuse, I (personally) couldn't care less where the garment and fabric are made assuming they measure up!
 

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