Funerary attire.

[rnoldh]

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

While I don't disagree with this necessarily, it is also important to see that this is a cultural change of values. Both of my grandfathers were solidly blue collar men in non-managerial jobs (carpenter/farmer and painter). Both were relatively poor and lived in modest means (lower middle class) and relied principally on Social Security (or in one case Railroad Retirement) in their old age. Yet both owned and regularly wore suits. Neither would have ever considered wearing anything but a dark suit to a funeral. They were not always "well" dressed, but they were certainly "appropriately" dressed. Times have changed. 'Twas not always so.

Yes, a lot of this is concerned with changing social attitudes.

Both my grandfathers were lower-lower middle class (a euphemistic way of saying poor). Yet they were able to wear a suit to funerals and such. My dad was lower middle class (it's getting better), and he often wore a suit even when it was not necessary for work.

Very much of this concerns the era we're talking about. There was a great post here or on AAAC. It had a picture of some Australian criminals from the 1920s. And I'm not talking white collar criminals. These guys were burglars and vagrants. Yet amazingly they were wearing suits.

I'm a big fan of TCM (Turner Classic Movies), and I've seen many, many movies from the 1930s. I've noted that even in the depths of the depression there were many men wearing suits. Much more so than now. I guess that is the way it was in the 1930s.

I think it was sator that posted the picture. I hope he sees this post and finds that picture again. My search abilities are not good enough, but I do remember the picture.

I googled "depression era criminals" and this came up:

Bonnie and Clyde from the 1930s. They weren't vagrants but they certainly were not white collar criminals. Note how they are dressed.

 

[JLibourel]

A number of your old time robbers and bandits were rather dapper. John Dillinger would be notable case in point. Most of the photos of him shown him elegantly attired in a three-piece suit and tie. Alvin Karpis seems to have been a good dresser, as well. The mug shots of George "Baby Face" Nelson show him in a newsboy cap and a tie.

Of course, many mobsters from Al Capone though Bugsy Siegel to John Gotti have been famous for their elegant attire, as my buddy Cruiser never tires of pointing out. Mob headquarters in Los Angeles was Mickey Cohen's haberdashery shop (on Sunset Boulevard, as I recall). I wish I'd gone in and patronized the place. It was a colorful bit of L.A. history. My family always regarded "poor little Mickey Cohen" as a somewhat sympathetic figure, being bullied by the cruel authorities.

The power of the mob locally was largely discredited after the killing of Johnny Stompanato by Lana Turner's daughter Cheryl Crane in 1958. People figured if a teenage girl could bump off a leading mobster with ease, how tough could they really be? Cheryl had been a frequent dancing partner of mine at the Bel-Air Town and Country School a few years earlier. She was a couple of classes behind me but very tall, so we were often paired together.

 

[rnoldh]

Nvm

 

[BBRex]

I am curious as to what "appropriately dressed" means, both in society and on a forum such as this. I actually signed up to get ideas about how to build my personal style, get ideas, etc. At the same time, I'm not rolling in cash. I work in an industry that traditionally pays low, and I've been going to school besides. I wonder if I would be accepted if I showed up to a funeral in my Dillard's suit, shirt, and shoes. I understand that this is a forum for people who take what they wear seriously. But is this a place for people who care about what they wear even if they cant' afford the best?

 

[rnoldh]

Originally Posted by BBRex

I am curious as to what "appropriately dressed" means, both in society and on a forum such as this. I actually signed up to get ideas about how to build my personal style, get ideas, etc. At the same time, I'm not rolling in cash. I work in an industry that traditionally pays low, and I've been going to school besides. I wonder if I would be accepted if I showed up to a funeral in my Dillard's suit, shirt, and shoes. I understand that this is a forum for people who take what they wear seriously. But is this a place for people who care about what they wear even if they cant' afford the best?

Of course you would be accepted, It would help if the suit is a darker business type suit (Navy, Charcoal, etc.) and not a light colored casual suit. Dress shoes from Dillards would be fine, very casual shoes (like driving shoes) might not be good.

This forum is about things like style and fit. Not everyone is affluent and can afford the most expensive designers or go bespoke. But we can all improve our styles and profiles (meaning fit) generally. And you'll find that to many of us there is a mantra of, "I would never pay retail", which tells you that value purchasing is also a part of the mix.

I imagine you would look just fine in a Dillards outfit, and by learning a little more here on SF you can look even better in your Dillard items or perhaps other and better stuff that you will be able to purchase for the same prices or less.

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by BBRex

I am curious as to what "appropriately dressed" means, both in society and on a forum such as this. I actually signed up to get ideas about how to build my personal style, get ideas, etc. At the same time, I'm not rolling in cash. I work in an industry that traditionally pays low, and I've been going to school besides. I wonder if I would be accepted if I showed up to a funeral in my Dillard's suit, shirt, and shoes. I understand that this is a forum for people who take what they wear seriously. But is this a place for people who care about what they wear even if they cant' afford the best?

Of course...I think we all have to start somewhere, and most people didn't jump out of their mother's bellies wearing bespoke and Lobb shoes! One of the best things about the forum is that there are a range of participants; the real enthusiasts spend a small fortune on what they wear, and tend to be the most vocal, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're the majority of members...

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

I suppose there are some poor souls in the United States who are living in grinding, Third World-ish poverty. However, they are comparatively few. Moreover, they are not the sort of people in whose company I am likely to be attending a funeral. (I know this sounds a bit snobbish, but it is realistic!) Every man, no matter what his station in life, knows that there are going to be occasions when some manner of "dressy" apparel is called for. Given how cheaply such apparel can be had at places like J.C. Penney (and cheaper yet at Target), there is scant excuse for any American male with a paycheck not to own some kind of dress attire. It may not be what we would want or consider elegant, but at least it would be respectful and appropriate. In most cases when men do not own some kind of dress attire, it is because they are lazy, indifferent, slovenly and unbelievably cheap, not because they are poor. I mentioned earlier a chap who showed up at a funeral (at which many prominent men of affairs and celebrities had gathered from nationwide) wearing a polo shirt layered over a T-shirt. Now I am dead certain that sumbitch makes a salary closely comparable to mine, maybe even appreciably more. Another case I have previously mentioned: I have a friend who makes about $300,000 from his business ventures. His wife makes even more. About a year ago, he discovered that the moths had trashed his one and only blazer and he had a dressy event coming up. Off he went to Men's Wearhouse to outfit himself with a new ensemble: blazer, shirt, necktie, slacks and shoes. He was complaining bitterly to me that the whole outfit cost him the preposterous sum of $400! A few months later all the buttons popped off the new blazer. "Serves you right for shopping at Men's Whorehouse," I told him. An observation of mine is that African-American men, although economically disadvantaged compared to the whites as a whole, are usually much better about dressing appropriately for occasions where it is expected than the slovenly white boys!
I think these were the people I was most concerned with, and didn't really want them to get the short shrift. On the whole though, I do agree that so few people, especially in the US, dress inappropriately for different occasions. Having grown up in Singapore, which is a more explicitly class- and status-conscious society than the US, I think gaffes like the t-shirts, jeans and polos at funerals occur less often. Suits are a bit less common day-to-day because of the heat, but I do think people make an effort when the occasion demands it. I think it would be interpreted as a sign of disrespect to show up to a funeral casually dressed. I'm surprised it isn't frowned upon more in the US.

 

[BBRex]

Thanks for the replies. I'm new here (of course), and I was kind of wondering what the prevailing attitudes were. I'm interested in learning from those who know, but I don't care to read posts from the more-money-than-sense crowd. I've been on other boards where the attitude seemed to be "If you don't spend $8,000 on a suit then you might as well go naked." I have to admit I haven't really seen that here, but I guess I'm just a bit leery. Oh, I'm not concerned or offended by those who can afford the best and wish to show it off. I just want to make sure there's room for people like me in here, too.

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by BBRex

Thanks for the replies. I'm new here (of course), and I was kind of wondering what the prevailing attitudes were. I'm interested in learning from those who know, but I don't care to read posts from the more-money-than-sense crowd. I've been on other boards where the attitude seemed to be "If you don't spend $8,000 on a suit then you might as well go naked." I have to admit I haven't really seen that here, but I guess I'm just a bit leery. Oh, I'm not concerned or offended by those who can afford the best and wish to show it off. I just want to make sure there's room for people like me in here, too.

I don't know what forum that would be, the London Lounge maybe? If you are interested in inexpensive clothing the guy with average means can afford, I would particularly commend to you Ask Andy's Fashion Forum, if you are not already familiar with it. It is replete these days with information about clothiers that are readily accessible to fellows of modest to average means like Jos.A. Bank and J.C. Penney, especially the latter.

 

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

I don't know what forum that would be, the London Lounge maybe? If you are interested in inexpensive clothing the guy with average means can afford, I would particularly commend to you Ask Andy's Fashion Forum, if you are not already familiar with it. It is replete these days with information about clothiers that are readily accessible to fellows of modest to average means like Jos.A. Bank and J.C. Penney, especially the latter.
I agree. Ask Andy forums do tend to discuss more moderately priced and thrifted goods.

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

I don't know what forum that would be, the London Lounge maybe? If you are interested in inexpensive clothing the guy with average means can afford, I would particularly commend to you Ask Andy's Fashion Forum, if you are not already familiar with it. It is replete these days with information about clothiers that are readily accessible to fellows of modest to average means like Jos.A. Bank and J.C. Penney, especially the latter.

May be I'm misreading you, but why do always have to be so caustic?

 

[Cuff Link]

Unfortunately I am of the age where I attend funerals with some regularity.

Shortly after my wardrobe had begun to improve, I attended a funeral. Dark charcoal Hickey Freeman Madison suit, white H&K shirt, black Waterford double cufflinks, black AE Park Avenues, dark striped tie and white linen pocket square. The whole thing...

Not once but twice, I was mistaken for the funeral director. (I was dressed better than he was.) This then happened at two other funerals. Since that time I have toned down the formality a bit. Has tthe same thing happened to anyone else?

Cuff

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by academe

May be I'm misreading you, but why do always have to be so caustic?

Probably just a naturally caustic nature. I have told the story of my grudge against that operation, and I don't want to repeat myself lest I be accused of "whining" (as I already was). Given the provocation, I hope I can excused an occasional dig at Ask Cruiser About Clothes.

 

[RyJ Maduro]

Originally Posted by Cuff Link

Not once but twice, I was mistaken for the funeral director. (I was dressed better than he was.) This then happened at two other funerals. Since that time I have toned down the formality a bit. Has tthe same thing happened to anyone else?

Cuff

I've never seen a well dressed funeral director. They're always dressed appropriately, (dark suit and tie,) but with a style which matches their typically morbid, sullen personalities.

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Probably just a naturally caustic nature. I have told the story of my grudge against that operation, and I don't want to repeat myself lest I be accused of "whining" (as I already was). Given the provocation, I hope I can excused an occasional dig at Ask Cruiser About Clothes.

Fair enough... There seem to fair few around here who aren't particularly happy about how things shook out.