full canvas suits from alibaba

[Phileas Fogg]

Do you think this is unknown to people on this forum or something?

apparently our good friend buddyfuzz doesn’t seem to think any such thing exists.

see my other response. You’re too smart for this.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Right, then what's your point? That implicates literally every factory in the world because we're living in a world with fragmented, decentralized supply chains.

sure and to the extent I can, I try not to buy Chinese. I still have to make my way through the world. That doesn’t mean we don’t say something or do something when we can.

Northern abolitionists likely wore cotton garments whose cotton was picked by southern slaves, but they didn’t just sit quiet either and pretend all was cool.

 

[CorozoButton]

apparently our good friend buddyfuzz doesn’t seem to think any such thing exists.

see my other response. You’re too smart for this.

Read my other response before you start with this. I am fully aware of what is going on in China, and it's morally abhorrent, without question. Stop trying to wriggle your way out of this. You assumed a factory you have no knowledge of was using forced Uighur labour. You then tried to backpedal and talk about raw materials and supply chains.

Guess what? On a daily basis you consume and pay for products that will have moral issues throughout their supply chain.

 

[dieworkwear]

sure and to the extent I can, I try not to buy Chinese. I still have to make my way through the world. That doesn’t mean we don’t say something or do something when we can.

Northern abolitionists likely wore cotton garments whose cotton was picked by southern slaves, but they didn’t just sit quiet either and pretend all was cool.

I don't get it. Your previous post recognized that just because clothing was made at a good factory doesn't mean that the final garment isn't implicated in labor abuse because of the fragmented supply chain. Yet, your comment above reduces clothing production to country of origin labels.

 

[dukeaw]

apparently our good friend buddyfuzz doesn’t seem to think any such thing exists.

see my other response. You’re too smart for this.

No one is denying the horrible conditions of certain factories in China. I abhor the treatment of the Uyghurs, Tibetans and other ethnic minorities. Would you stop doing business with American companies for our family deportations and child separations? After all, conditions in those concentration camps is documented as inhumane...

There are more slaves in the world today than at any other time in history.

We all condemn those practices. But a country of 1.4 billion is not a single entity. And these factories hire skilled craftsmen.

Do you really believe a slave will sew a suit canvas to spec? These factories have skilled workers

 

[CorozoButton]

I don't get it. Your previous post recognized that just because clothing was made at a good factory doesn't mean that the final garment isn't implicated in labor abuse because of the fragmented supply chain. Yet, your comment above reduces clothing production to country of origin labels.

Thank you. I feel like this is just somebody getting defensive because they got called out on stereotyping an entire country.

 

[CorozoButton]

@Phileas Fogg I really don't get your problem. First you make the unfounded claim that this particular factory must use slave labour, and then when I refute that, you make the equally unfounded claim that I don't think slave labour exists in China? Are you just arguing against things you've decided to fabricate?

 

[CorozoButton]

setting aside the utter ridiculousness of being allowed to “tour” a factory in China, ostensibly with a minder or tour guide.

Apologies for the multiple replies, but I'm absolutely baffled by this. Have you seen a documentary on North Korea and somehow confused it with China?

Do you just flat out not believe that there can be Chinese factories with decent working conditions that visitors can be shown round?

Is this a common mentality over in the USA? Is this what the years of anti-China rhetoric has done?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Do you really believe a slave will sew a suit canvas to spec?

maybe. The Nazis used slave labor for any number of things.

the textiles used to make the suit more than likely could have been made using slave labor.

 

[dukeaw]

maybe. The Nazis used slave labor for any number of things.

the textiles used to make the suit more than likely could have been made using slave labor.

GODWINED!!!

Phileas... The world is flawed. I buy from businesses that supported Trumpism... I still do business with them even though they support systemic racism, locking up children, and attempting to overthrow the US govt... the world isnt perfect. We have to navigate it with eyes open.

We all should strive to make the world a better place, but we cannot paralyze ourselves based on an unlikely

 

[Phileas Fogg]

GODWINED!!!

Phileas... The world is flawed. I buy from businesses that supported Trumpism... I still do business with them even though they support systemic racism, locking up children, and attempting to overthrow the US govt... the world isnt perfect. We have to navigate it with eyes open.

We all should strive to make the world a better place, but we cannot paralyze ourselves based on an unlikely

Oh don't get me wrong. I fully admit we can't live up to our ideals. My iPhone is made in China, or at least components are, as are many other products that I use on a daily basis.

But let's not kid ourselves about where and how these things are produced. China is an authoritarian state which engages in slave labor practices. My comment regarding the price of these garments considering that they are produced, either wholly or in part, by slave labor is one that has merit.

For some to clutch at pearls and pretend that the Chinese government doesn't enslave it's citizens and force them to work in labor camps is naive at best.

 

[CorozoButton]

Oh don't get me wrong. I fully admit we can't live up to our ideals. My iPhone is made in China, or at least components are, as are many other products that I use on a daily basis.

But let's not kid ourselves about where and how these things are produced. China is an authoritarian state which engages in slave labor practices. My comment regarding the price of these garments considering that they are produced, either wholly or in part, by slave labor is one that has merit.

For some to clutch at pearls and pretend that the Chinese government doesn't enslave it's citizens and force them to work in labor camps is naive at best.

I can only assume you've stopped replying to me upon realisation of your errors.

1.) Who are these people clutching these pearls and pretending exactly? I don't think they're in this thread. I've stated several times that this happens, just not at this factory. You continuously ignoring this does not change that you were arguing against a fabrication you created yourself.

2.) I am not comparing the two, but the US government is also guilty of, or at least allowing and being part of unjustifiably and disproportionately locking up ethnic minorities to perform labour for which they are barely, or not at all compensated for. Remember what they say about glass houses.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I can only assume you've stopped replying to me upon realisation of your errors.

1.) Who are these people clutching these pearls and pretending exactly? I don't think they're in this thread. I've stated several times that this happens, just not at this factory. You continuously ignoring this does not change that you were arguing against a fabrication you created yourself.

2.) I am not comparing the two, but the US government is also guilty of, or at least allowing and being part of unjustifiably and disproportionately locking up ethnic minorities to perform labour for which they are barely, or not at all compensated for. Remember what they say about glass houses.

No. I stopped replying because:

A) I actually work for a living and was doing something productive

B) You bore me

 

[dukeaw]

Oh don't get me wrong. I fully admit we can't live up to our ideals. My iPhone is made in China, or at least components are, as are many other products that I use on a daily basis.

But let's not kid ourselves about where and how these things are produced. China is an authoritarian state which engages in slave labor practices. My comment regarding the price of these garments considering that they are produced, either wholly or in part, by slave labor is one that has merit.

For some to clutch at pearls and pretend that the Chinese government doesn't enslave it's citizens and force them to work in labor camps is naive at best.

We're talking circles around this. We all hear what you are saying. We all agree with your concept. We agree that China is authoritarian. We agree that there is slave labor in China. However, we all disagree on the data point that these high end factories use slave labor.

If there is slave labor in the supply chain then it is terrible. Many of the foods we eat were produced with slave labor in the 3rd world. But we dont think about that. Can we move off this subject as we agree on most of it except for your claim of slave labor in these factories, which is conjecture. And criticism of it being the supply chain is beyond the scope of what anyone is equipped for for this conversation.

Thank you

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I simply commented that the prices seemed high for goods produced using slave labor.

That was met with an absolute denial of the fact that slave labor exists in China. I'm merely pointing out that it does.