full canvas suits from alibaba

[dukeaw]

All,

My hope is that I can purchase full canvas suits of high quality for an incredibly reasonable price if I'm willing to do some of the heavy lifting myself.

I am exploring ordering a suit direct from a manufacturer in Asia and skipping the middle man. I have found several clothing manufacturers on Alibaba that claim to be able to make full custom suits with full canvas construction. I am still not fully sure about the quality of their cloth. I hope I can reach out to cloth merchants/mills to mail to the manufacturer for CMT. But I am willing to put the work in over 2 or 3 orders to try and perfect my fit, as I already have several existing custom suits to compare sizing, fit, and style with.

Has anyone had experience with any of these alibaba suit manufacturers? Any recommended companies to work with? I have already emailed Trands, who is one of the largest and am waiting to hear back. Am I setting myself up for failure or can I get a decent product?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

My rule with such things; you get what you pay for.

 

[neminat]

Im positive there is an opportunity for savings, but this wouldnt be something i would be too interested in. Between the delays, inability to trust their work, and concern for how it will be handled when it isnt produced properly, i would have to stay away. Id go straight to Spier and Mackay. Reputable, quality, well priced and an established business.

 

[dukeaw]

Update:

From what I'm hearing back from these companies seems very promising. These seem like the same factories that all the local mtm middlemen use. I'm getting pricing as anywhere from $180-$250 per suit. This doesnt include named mill fabric. Although one of the companies stated they have access. The main hiccup for most customers is access, knowledge, and ability to properly fit the garment.

I'm going to order test suits based on my existing custom suits from 2-3 companies and see where this goes. If its a several hundred dollar mistake I can afford it. If it works out then I can buy suits for 1/4 to 1/3 what they cost me locally through a middleman.

 

[breakaway01]

FYI I think @buddyfuzz has been doing what you are planning to do. He posted in the MTM/custom thread recently about this. I’d get in touch with him for any advice he can provide.

 

[CorozoButton]

I saw you PM'd me. I'll get back to you properly when I get a moment in the next day or two.

Briefly, I will say:

My rule with such things; you get what you pay for.

This is true in as much as you are not paying (at least up front, but possibly you will pay through the cost and experience you collect) for the knowledge/experience/advice that the middleman has. In terms of quality of garment make - what I've had come out of a Far East MTM factory has been outstanding. They are capable of offering fully handmade garments with precision and levels of detail that rival pretty much anyone in the world. A friend of mine is a Savile Row coatmaker, working primarily for one of the 'big' houses and he has been blown away by what they are able to do.

It will very possibly be a difficult journey though. These factories can have customisation options beyond what you could even imagine, but there are reasons that middlemen have fixed options - every variable you introduce creates another opportunity to go wrong.

Depending on how hard you are to fit and how pick you are, 2/3 orders may be ambitious.

 

[dukeaw]

I saw you PM'd me. I'll get back to you properly when I get a moment in the next day or two.

Briefly, I will say:



This is true in as much as you are not paying (at least up front, but possibly you will pay through the cost and experience you collect) for the knowledge/experience/advice that the middleman has. In terms of quality of garment make - what I've had come out of a Far East MTM factory has been outstanding. They are capable of offering fully handmade garments with precision and levels of detail that rival pretty much anyone in the world. A friend of mine is a Savile Row coatmaker, working primarily for one of the 'big' houses and he has been blown away by what they are able to do.

It will very possibly be a difficult journey though. These factories can have customisation options beyond what you could even imagine, but there are reasons that middlemen have fixed options - every variable you introduce creates another opportunity to go wrong.

Depending on how hard you are to fit and how pick you are, 2/3 orders may be ambitious.

This thread was posted in response to buddy's post in the MTM thread. I thought it would be worthwhile to see if anyone else had experience with this.

I appreciate your insight. I figured there are people out there like us that like to do things the hard way to get the exact results we're looking for. I hope I can do it successfully in 2-3 orders. However, for the amount of clothing I purchase this would be a tremendous savings even if it takes a handful of tries. I'd value your insight from what you've learned.

 

[dieworkwear]

Seems like a terrible idea. I've been following men's forums for over ten years and have seen many people try to save pennies, only to end up losing a lot more money than if they just went a more traditional route.

Spier & Mackay is about the best I've seen for affordable tailoring. With the money you'll likely end up pouring into this, only to get poor results, you would be better off just buying a couple of garments from them and putting things back on the rack if they don't work out. And if you can afford many items from them, then it would be better to open your scope to see what else is out there, so you can home in on a better fit and silhouette.

Ultimately, most men only need a few pieces. "Buy Less, Buy Better" is the mother's milk of menswear writing, but useful for good reason.

 

[CorozoButton]

Seems like a terrible idea. I've been following men's forums for over ten years and have seen many people try to save pennies, only to end up losing a lot more money than if they just went a more traditional route.

Spier & Mackay is about the best I've seen for affordable tailoring. With the money you'll likely end up pouring into this, only to get poor results, you would be better off just buying a couple of garments from them and putting things back on the rack if they don't work out. And if you can afford many items from them, then it would be better to open your scope to see what else is out there, so you can home in on a better fit and silhouette.

Ultimately, most men only need a few pieces. "Buy Less, Buy Better" is the mother's milk of menswear writing, but useful for good reason.

Very valid points. I decided to go this route because I was struggling with the MTM at the price point I was comfortable with in the UK (No S&M). I was using Suitsupply at the time and there were certain things I felt I couldn't get from their MTM offering, and felt I was unlikely to find it from other offerings in the same price bracket.

I'm not sure that it's a terrible idea, providing one has reasonable expectations. It seems to be that the OPs motivation is that it's an investment that pays off over the medium to long term, when once they have their pattern refined, the cost difference in cost per garment will eventually offset the trial and error to get there, and eventually save them money. This thinking isn't perhaps quite as foolish as you think, as I have gotten to a pretty good point - but then again, I can be a very tricky MTM fit. This isn't why I chose to do it though (Edit: see post below).

Here's a picture of my last jacket order. It's worth noting that it's a very light, S150s cloth that drapes terribly. Admittedly, an experienced MTM outfit may very well have talked me out of using this cloth. That sort of insight can be incredibly valuable, and I will be the first to admit that. I've highlighted the issues I'm trying to fix with my next order.
1.) A bit more fullness over the shoulder blades
2.) Left sleeve pitch forward
3.) Maybe more room in the chest, but maybe not.

The black bar is to block out personal identifying information. The left shirt sleeve is caught up slightly.

I'd also note that I have very protruding bones on the top of my shoulder. I prefer completely unpadded shoulders, so the bumps seen are something I have decided to live with and keep as a trade off for avoiding padding.


This is as good as I got with any MTM.

The problems come when you try and change things. For example, here's an old order. I think the patch pockets look very odd. They're too high, and too small. Now after some back and forth, I know there are ways to make the pockets lower/bigger, but I did not know at the time. I've definitely found that this route will throw up new ways to surprise you every now and then.

 

[CorozoButton]

I should probably reiterate from above -

I didn't start doing this to save money. I did it because MTM wasn't getting the results I was after for various reasons.

The question I seem to get asked is 'how long/how many orders' did it take to nail your pattern. Patterns are something that are refined over time. Even at the highest level of bespoke, fit improves (or at least it should) the more commissions that are made with the particular tailor/cutter.

I would say, following on from Derek's input - if you have a MTM service/pattern that you are happy with, and are simply looking to try and replicate that at a better price, then I'm not so sure I would advise going this route.

If I happen to save money over the course of orders in the long-run, relative to what they would have cost with via a MTM shop, then I suppose that's a plus, but it's not really about that.

 

[dukeaw]

@dieworkwear I hear what you are saying and appreciate your expertise and knowledge. I know everyone loves SM. However, I am buying custom from a local tailor for the past few years. I like supporting him, and I get full customization. He makes the garments himself and I value our relationship. SM is a step down for me. However, I cannot always justify the price of my local tailor even though I want to support him and am committed to working with him still. I know you say buy a few but high quality. That is true. But I'm not good at buying few. So I'm working around my demons.

I can buy ~4 handmade full canvas suits of house fabric ($3-$400) for the price of one of his machine made full canvas suits ($1600-$2000). I can buy 7-8 handmade full canvas suits for the price of one handmade bespoke suit ($3400). And if those suits are fused house fabric (~$200-$250) for perfecting the fit then I can way more. The chinese factory's CMT for a full handmade suit is ~$500 plus fabric and shipping. Half handmade CMT is only $350. Compared to a $3400 expenditure that seems downright reasonable. I've already had one commission from my local guy that didnt turn out how I wanted and absorbed the cost. If it take a few fits to get it right, then thats already less than absorbing the loss of a single failed commission from my local guy.

The middlemen in the NYC area already charge $1000-$1800 for suits from similar factories. I've gone to 3 of them over the years and got rid of all 3 due to the fitters being really really bad. From my point of view, going through the trial and error to get this right is financially acceptable given my current expenditure. If I was starting out from square one this would be a terrible idea. And my personality likes doing things the hard way. I get enjoyment out of figuring things out. This last bit about me doing things the hard way is probably the biggest takeaway.

Dont worry, I will still continue to support my local tailor and purchase from him.

@buddyfuzz Thank you for your insight. I appreciate what you've said. I agree that it will be an iterative approach over the next few months.

 

[dieworkwear]

Everything above just confirms to me that this is a bad idea. I think you'll wind up with a pile of garments that don't look good and you'll never wear. Or, at best, you'll wind up with some generic thing that you can get at any number of clothiers for less money.

 

[dukeaw]

Everything above just confirms to me that this is a bad idea. I think you'll wind up with a pile of garments that don't look good and you'll never wear. Or, at best, you'll wind up with some generic thing that you can get at any number of clothiers for less money.

You may be right. My first order is going to be a half canvas or fused suit. For ~$210-$250 plus shipping I'm willing to take first steps. If it is as bad as you warn then I'll come back and admit you were right. I dont have ego in this since I see it as a collaborative discussion. I'll only be out the cost of a single date night with my gf in NYC (pre-covid). Date nights have gotten a lot less expensive when there isnt anywhere to go...

Funny thing about this is I now go to the office maybe 1-2 days a week and wear a suit then... but with everything shut down I'm really not dressing to go anywhere otherwise, but it gave me the free time/boredom to go down this rabbit hole

 

[CorozoButton]

Everything above just confirms to me that this is a bad idea. I think you'll wind up with a pile of garments that don't look good and you'll never wear. Or, at best, you'll wind up with some generic thing that you can get at any number of clothiers for less money.

I would personally say that I've managed to get better results this way than I did through MTM at a higher price point. Then again, I'm a particularly difficult fit.

Your right in that I don't wear that green jacket, which was order number two, but the two jackets that followed are my most worn jackets and I get more wear out of them than I did with any MTM before. I also wear pants from the MTM factory on a near daily basis (or at least I do out of lockdown).

Then again, if this works for me, it doesn't mean it'll work for others. The guy who got the winning lottery ticket is going to say it was the right investment, but that doesn't mean you should go out and buy 100 tickets.

Again, if you're happy or near happy with an MTM offering that provides results, then I really, really don't recommend doing this.

 

[dieworkwear]

I would personally say that I've managed to get better results this way than I did through MTM at a higher price point. Then again, I'm a particularly difficult fit.

Then why go MTM?