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Friday WAYWRN Challenge: CM does SWD.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by EFV, Oct 29, 2013.

MC does SWD

Poll closed Nov 4, 2013.
  1. Holdfast

    12 vote(s)
    7.0%
  2. UrbanComposition

    14 vote(s)
    8.2%
  3. NOBD

    31 vote(s)
    18.1%
  4. luv2breformed

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Orgetorix

    2 vote(s)
    1.2%
  6. Mr. Moo

    25 vote(s)
    14.6%
  7. Digmenow

    4 vote(s)
    2.3%
  8. EFV

    54 vote(s)
    31.6%
  9. timotune

    15 vote(s)
    8.8%
  10. Cotton Dockers

    6 vote(s)
    3.5%
  11. Rick's Tailoring

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  12. Sprezziamo

    6 vote(s)
    3.5%
  13. kulata

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. Kaplan

    43 vote(s)
    25.1%
  15. in stitches

    36 vote(s)
    21.1%
  16. Caustic Man

    3 vote(s)
    1.8%
  17. Pingson

    38 vote(s)
    22.2%
  18. bourbonbasted

    4 vote(s)
    2.3%
  19. gdl203

    33 vote(s)
    19.3%
  20. Tirailleur1

    64 vote(s)
    37.4%
  21. Kai

    2 vote(s)
    1.2%
  22. SpooPoker

    23 vote(s)
    13.5%
  23. Claghorn

    13 vote(s)
    7.6%
  24. Coxsackie

    2 vote(s)
    1.2%
  25. FlyingMonkey

    13 vote(s)
    7.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The only black shoes I have are captoe bluchers and oxfords. I figured both would be too formal for the look. I have noticed that few people wear brown shoes in WAYWT. Mostly gray, black, or white.
     


  2. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    Good suggestions re: SWD / CM crossover, so long as it doesn't end up becoming another split.

    I tried to take pics of what I'm wearing today but I'm a terrible photographer when it comes to taking pictures of myself, so I'll think about what to do about this later...
     


  3. Crat

    Crat Senior member

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    Thats a thing too. I see great pics of mediocre fits getting a lot of thumbs sometimes and vice versa.
    Oh well, life aint fair.
     


  4. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    yeah, i think our convo got spliced. i was talking about MC CW. certainly there are mishaps everywhere, but as far as a mishap due to a fit being in no mans land, i find that happens in MC CW most often. where is in MC WAYWRN or SWD WAYWT the mishaps are just mishaps.
    like this better. DAT SMIRK!! -- clags, i like that, and thought of doing something similar, but i decided i did not want to do a fit with dress trousers for this challenge. too close to MC for me. ymmv as there are plenty of dress trousers in SWD, including parkers recent masterpiece, but i felt for this i wanted to try without.
     


  5. Tirailleur1

    Tirailleur1 Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Kin Julien the shoes are YSL


    and yeah Clags I like the Derbies, But u could have entered gawd status with some Raf era Jil Sander Derbies.
     


  6. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    SWD seems to be far more about how the clothes fit and the way in which individual pieces interact than the actual nature of individual pieces. Except for something like a tie (and even then), I'm not sure a SWD-MC dichotomy works with regards to the nature of clothes. There are many things which are not CM, but there are few things which are not SWD.
     


  7. Rais

    Rais Senior member

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    I don't think I've ever seen anyone so unhappy to be posting their pictures on a men's fashion forum.
     


  8. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    i dont quite agree. there are less things that are inherently not SWD than there are things that are inherently not MC, but there are still lots of things that are not SWD. (dress trousers not being one of those things, this is a separate point)

    either way, while i have nothing against dress trousers here, and while i agree that dress trousers are not at all uncommon in SWD, and your fit is very nice, i will still say that they are by far the minority of pants one sees in SWD. and of the dress trousers one sees in SWD, by far most are not the type of dress trousers you see in MC, like the ones you are wearing.

    to be clear, i am in no way hating on your fit. it looks very good, and i was inclined to do something very similar. i am just stating that personally i decided i wanted to do something for this challenge without any MC items. i might fail my face off, but i wanted to stick with items that are more organically SWD. not items that are more organically MC, but could work in a SWD fit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013


  9. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    I tend to agree with Stitches here.

    One thing that SW&D is much bigger on than CM is the notion of 'silhouette'. It's not that things 'fit' in the CM way, but that they create a harmonious or interesting line either when static or in motion. Parker's recent fit was so superb precisely because of the line created from the jacket, down the pressed flaired trousers to the particular form of the shoes. Of course, the quality of the individual ingredients and the coherence created by the subtle variation of colour were also important, but it was all about silhouette or line. To use a CM reference, it produced the kind of feeling that you get looking at those exagerated 1930s Apparel Arts pictures with their stretched, impossible elegance. CM does consider these issues but in much more restricted ways - shoulders and waist suppression on jackets, tapering on trousers, but very little attention is given to the concept of silhouette overall.

    The motion thing is interesting too - hardly any attention is given in CM to what clothes look or feel like in motion, with the exception of the oft-discussed way in which bespoke coats should hold to the collar when in motion. Yohji Yamamoto's clothes, mentioned above, really have to be seen in motion to appreciate just how good a designer he is.

    None of this is to say that SW&D's enthusiasm for certain fits is unarguable. I find some of the things that are liked a lot, very dull and repetitive. But then, the same is true in CM. However I think things can be learned both ways.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013


  10. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The idea of motion is interesting. On one hand, it's impractical for a forum where one posts pictures. On the other hand, it's far more applicable to real life, where one is rarely static. There is a great gif of the shah showing off his his pants in motion. There are a number of little things about CM that seem ill suited for looking good in motion. Narrow trouser openings, for one thing. Jackets without drape as well. On the other hand, dropcrotch pants also seem like they would look very poor in motion.

    Other than the tie, I'm struggling to think of anything which is strictly CM and not also held, in some form, as part of SW&D. Even the suit, in the form of Yohji, carries over to SW&D. Perhaps certain types of shoes...
     


  11. cyc wid it

    cyc wid it Senior member

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    There's this from SZ (an artisanal oriented forum) - it's too big to be embedded in SF.

    http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/shuitsang/Cinemagraph/hires.gif

    vs

    the static pics (which are already quite good at conveying motion IMO)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    There's also some other gifs that people have posted here too over the years, some Yohji-esque, some more conservative.

    Then you have people like me who take cell phone pics - sometimes in a mirror, sometimes from a makeshift stand on a desk with a timer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013


  12. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    Yes, but there's much more than that. There's a whole streetwear suits etc. thread in which you'll see that contemporary variations on the suit in the streetwear context, run the range from the very narrow mod-influenced type, through things that would not seem out of place in CM, to Yohji-types of deconstructed suits or suit-influenced clothing. Yohji is way out there, even for SW&D. It's not some kind of everyday thing (for the vast majority of people). Shoes too.

    It's not that certain 'things' are bad or good. Ties can also be fine in SW&D contexts: for example, I would bet that most of Tirailleur's forthcoming line will not be worn by CM-type people, although I hope that some do (I will certainly be buying some!). It's about those contexts, how things are put together and why - and more than that, it's about the foundations of how and why you dress. Basically, you know that whole Vox 'town and country' guide to how to dress for beginners? That is completely irrelevent to SW&D. That's not to say that both CM and SW&D would not come to the same conclusions about a particular fit - but a suit fit would be judged in SW&D not in how much it conformed to basic principles and rules derived from historical norms, but whether it looked good* in itsself, however it conformed or didn't, to any particular set of external rules.

    *As to how you judge what 'looks good', aesthetics is a minefield, but it's not just 'I like this and you like that'. Some people do seem to just have a naturally better eye, but for most of us it's about training our eye, the first step of which is to get past the cultural or personal blockages of 'that looks weird' or ' I couldn't wear that to the office'...
     


  13. jrd617

    jrd617 Senior member

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    what. da. fuck.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013


  14. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    Zoro FTW. Clags, its not about weather or not an item in general is strictly MC and not SWD. Dress trousers, a tailored jacket, a conservative tie, dress shoes, dress shirts... Yes all of these things can be worked into a SWD fit, but that does not make them SWD items. And for the most part, most "dress" items that are truly SWD gear are not cut or styled or textured in the same way that that same "dress" item would be if it were an MC item. Lets take your pants for example. Could one insert them into Parkers fit I have quoted below? Sure. But it would not have nearly the same effect as the pants he is wearing. They are both dress pants, they are both gray, but he is wearing SWD dress trousers and you are wearing MC dress trousers. Again, there is nothing wrong with that. I am merely stating, that for this challenge, I personally felt it would be more of a challenge to me, not to wear any items that are in any way MC items that also happen to be workable in an SWD fit. Rather, I wanted to try and stick with items that are in essence made and styled to be SWD items. So if one says, dress trousers are also SWD gear, that is not untrue, but its not telling the whole story. At least that is how I see it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013


  15. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    you heard me.
     


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