French Tailoring Thread (e.g. Camps de Luca, Cifonelli, Smalto and etc.)

[bourbonbasted]



Sorry, there is something a bit sick about willingly being a tailor for the likes of Mugabe. Awful man.

Would have been in better taste to simply turn him away.

Capitalism ain't for the faint of heart...

And while I agree tailors could and should hold themselves to a higher standard, you have to ask yourself: What are the actual repercussions of dressing oppressive world leaders? Do you think the usual clientele of elite French bespoke tailors (the lawyers and financiers of the world) are going to avoid buying from them because of their client list? Or, better yet, do you think someone who as been using them for years would stop buying because they spot Mugabe in one of their signature cuts?

In all reality it's unlikely that most of their customers would ever make the connection, ask after their clients or know who else was using their tailor. And even if they did, would they really care?

 

[jedwards]

I won't be using them. So there's one potential customer.

They don't even have the excuse "Look, he is the leader of our country, he could make things difficult for my business if I refuse". He is a far removed foreigner they could easily refuse to serve.

Pretty disgusted in the whole thing to be honest, but I'll say no more on the topic.

 

[Cifodeluca]

It seems unfair to put the responsibility to ostracize nasty people on tailors' shoulders. What about those who sell them cars, airline tickets, hotel rooms, food, drinks, weapons? And before those businesses, first of all, shouldn't those people being blamed who make sure the nasty people receive the funds they can spend on bespoke suits and other expensive wares? Those politicians of western countries who fill the nasty people's coffers directly or indirectly by means of development or military aid? And consequentially those voters who voted those politicians in power? And those first world citizens who consume oil, metals (e.g. in Mugabe's case gold from Simbabwe) and other wares from the nasty people's countries?

Don't blame third world dictators or their tailors for the consequences of blunders of first world voters/consumers!

 

[bourbonbasted]



I won't be using them and I could, in theory, afford to if I were in the market for such a styled suit. So there's one potential customer.

They don't even have the excuse "Look, he is the leader of our country, he could make things difficult for my business if I refuse". He is a far removed foreigner they could easily refuse to serve.

Pretty disgusted in the whole thing to be honest, but I'll say no more on the topic.

Yeah, again, I don't disagree with your sentiments (I too find the willful acceptance of blood money as despicable). And they may well lose a potential customer here and there because of it. But by-and-large I have to assume their more nefarious clientele will have little-to-no impact on their larger customer base. It also seems that the dictators have created new business for them, as there is a whole slew of otherwise unrelated terrible people wearing their stuff.

It would be interesting to see (if any) the colonial implications of so many African leaders opting for French tailoring.

It seems unfair to put the responsibility to ostracize nasty people on tailors' shoulders. What about those who sell them cars, airline tickets, hotel rooms, food, drinks, weapons? And before those businesses, first of all, shouldn't those people being blamed who make sure the nasty people receive the funds they can spend on bespoke suits and other expensive wares? Those politicians of western countries who fill the nasty people's coffers directly or indirectly by means of development or military aid? And consequentially those voters who voted those politicians in power? And those first world citizens who consume oil, metals (e.g. in Mugabe's case gold from Simbabwe) and other wares from the nasty people's countries?

Don't blame third world dictators or their tailors for the consequences of blunders of first world voters/consumers!

This is an underlying idea in my posts. Where does the buck stop? And, really, why should businesses and people assume responsibility?

It's amazing what people are capable of so long as the check clears.

 

[venividivicibj]

Do you think tailors do research on who they are tailoring for? I don't think they do a background check on every clients name just to make sure they haven't committed any felonies or murders

 

[bourbonbasted]



Do you think tailors do research on who they are tailoring for? I don't think they do a background check on every clients name just to make sure they haven't committed any felonies or murders

Well I think there's a less-than-slight difference between one-time felons and dictators accused of war crimes/noted international dictators with ties to terrorism and human rights violations...

I know what you're getting at, but to jed's point, these are internationally recognized and hated figures.

 

[venividivicibj]

Well I think there's a less-than-slight difference between one-time felons and dictators accused of war crimes/noted international dictators with ties to terrorism and human rights violations...

I know what you're getting at, but to jed's point, these are internationally recognized and hated figures.

I understand your point as well, but there is more than a slight possibility that the tailors simply have no idea who some of these people are. They are so wrapped up in their craft (literally their whole life is fabric, tailoring, traveling, etc) that they might not know what is going on in another city, let alone another country.


I am sure some tailors do know. It is an interesting quandary though.

 

[Dandy Wonka]

This thread has taken a turn for the worst.

Where is Dirnelli and his like to bring it back to life?

 

[Xiaogou]

Do you think tailors do research on who they are tailoring for? I don't think they do a background check on every clients name just to make sure they haven't committed any felonies or murders

Well I think there's a less-than-slight difference between one-time felons and dictators accused of war crimes/noted international dictators with ties to terrorism and human rights violations...

I know what you're getting at, but to jed's point, these are internationally recognized and hated figures.

Mercedes Benz provided cars for the Nazi's. Will you refuse to buy one or refuse to ride in one on those grounds?

 

[dirnelli]



Who is the tailor for the King of Morocco? Is his son also wearing a tailored suit? He must be 10 and he will outgrow the suit in just a couple of years!

Smalto IMHO

 

[SeamasterLux]

Yes, could we please get back on topic? The idea is to show pictures of nice suits, whoever wears them. Next time, I'll cut the heads in the pictures.

One could also be doing suits for the largest weapon dealer in the world without knowing. Is that better/worse? It's not up to the tailor to be responsible for the clients' actions. I don't mind them cutting for whoever comes into their tailoring houses.

Back on topic, @dirnelli , yes I think you're totally right with the Smalto bet.

 

[venividivicibj]

Mercedes Benz provided cars for the Nazi's. Will you refuse to buy one or refuse to ride in one on those grounds?

Can't use that logic. MercedesBenz is German. Nazi's controlled Germany.

French tailors. African dictators. A difference.

 

[dirnelli]

Back on topic:

Contrary to popular beleif, Cifonelli also proposes the traditional fishmouth lapel (cran parisien), as in the example above, cut from Claude Rousseau's patterns. Rousseau worked for Camps de Luca, then set out on his own, before being later acquired by Cifonelli. So we can here see an example of a Cifonelli suit based on a Camps de Luca design. As I've stated before, one can go to Cifo for a Camps-like suit, but the reverse is not true.

 

[Kuro]

^but did you once say ITT that for the cran Parisian you would not suggest Cifonelli (or was that someone else)?

I heard the tailor at Charvet loves it if you ask for the cran Parisian like CdL...

 

[TheFoo]



Back on topic:

Contrary to popular beleif, Cifonelli also proposes the traditional fishmouth lapel (cran parisien), as in the example above, cut from Claude Rousseau's patterns. Rousseau worked for Camps de Luca, then set out on his own, before being later acquired by Cifonelli. So we can here see an example of a Cifonelli suit based on a Camps de Luca design. As I've stated before, one can go to Cifo for a Camps-like suit, but the reverse is not true.

Those are some aggressively, defiantly open quarters.