French Tailoring Thread (e.g. Camps de Luca, Cifonelli, Smalto and etc.)

[Griffindork]

^I can't speak as to Ripense or Camps de Luca because I've never had bespoke from either, but the major differences between Napolisumisura and Cifonelli are:

(1) styling. The two houses are trying to do something so fundamentally different in terms of styling that I'm not sure how one would think one is a suitable substitute for the other. Mina isn't cutting a close-fitting coat, she doesn't cut a coat with high arm holes, and I would describe her sleeves as significantly wider than any tailor that has ever made, where as Cifonelli's are easily the smallest. Cifonelli favors a shorter coat than Mina, and even when Cifonelli's shoulder doesn't have a rope to it, there is still significantly more structuring in the shoulders and chest than anything from Mina. Mina also basically has one style of jacket. Cifonelli has about 30.

(2) fit. Lorenzo is pretty much in a league of his own in terms of fitting among the tailors I've used. Everything hits exactly where it should (and it has to achieve the sculpting in the chest and shoulders that he is trying to achieve). Mina cuts a decent coat for the price, but it as about the same fit you would get from RTW if you have a relatively normal body type.

(3) Consistency: All of my pieces from Mina vary significantly from one another. Some may be ok with that. I found it incredibly bothersome. Cifonelli cuts a pretty consistent coat.

(4) Quality: it isn't just about handwork, but about longevity and degree of care. You don't find things coming apart on a Cifo suit the way you do on Mina's.

Obviously the money part is a significant and personal choice. I wish I came out the same way as Dirnelli but after trying a lot of tailors over the years, I'm down to Cifonelli and Huntsman. My experience is that the people charging the top prices are justified in doing so.

 

[Stugotes]

To be fair here, Mina isn't a cutter. When working with someone like Cifonelli you get to dealing with one of their cutters, right?

I wouldn't go to a tailoring house where I'm being measured by a salesperson.

I have no personal experience with NsM, though, just stating my impressions.

 

[Griffindork]

Mina isn't a cutter and the Cifonelli's are (and I believe one of either Massimo or Lorenzo measures and cuts every customer).

 

[TheFoo]



To be fair here, Mina isn't a cutter. When working with someone like Cifonelli you get to dealing with one of their cutters, right?

Regardless of how each shop handles orders, it's on them to get things right. Generally, that means the cutter should be there for fittings.

Also, there is the price point. NSM is half the price of Cifonelli. If you want to draw stronger conclusions regarding regional differences, Rubinacci is a better comparison. There you will get service more like what Cifonelli gets you, and from what I've seen, better workmanship. Mariano's strategy is to poach the best talent from all the different shops in Naples by paying top dollar (ahem, euro). I've heard a few of his competitors confirm that.

 

[lasbar]

I have a Cifonelli suit and my meetings were with mainly Lorenzo but with Massimo also around..

My Cifonelli suit fits me like a glove...

 

[Stugotes]

Regardless of how each shop handles orders, it's on them to get things right. Generally, that means the cutter should be there for fittings.

Also, there is the price point. NSM is half the price of Cifonelli. If you want to draw stronger conclusions regarding regional differences, Rubinacci is a better comparison. There you will get service more like what Cifonelli gets you, and from what I've seen, better workmanship. Mariano's strategy is to poach the best talent from all the different shops in Naples by paying top dollar (ahem, euro). I've heard a few of his competitors confirm that.

I forgot about Marianno and Luca being "mere" salespersons, too. They are accompanied by a cutter, though, if I'm reading the highlighted right?

 

[TheFoo]



I forgot about Marianno and Luca being "mere" salespersons, too. They are accompanied by a cutter, though, if I'm reading the highlighted right?

Not always. However, Mariano is sort of an exception to the rule. In my experience, he is often even pickier and more acute than the cutter.

 

[Kuro]



Mina isn't a cutter and the Cifonelli's are (and I believe one of either Massimo or Lorenzo measures and cuts every customer).

ahh, but which Cifonelli is the preferred cutter?

 

[Griffindork]

^All my suits have been cut by Lorenzo. Massimo does come to New York from time to time and when I asked Lorenzo if there was any difference between a suit cut by him and one cut by his cousin, his response was "no, both will be Cifonelli".

 

[Kuro]



^All my suits have been cut by Lorenzo. Massimo does come to New York from time to time and when I asked Lorenzo if there was any difference between a suit cut by him and one cut by his cousin, his response was "no, both will be Cifonelli".

His response doesn't surprise me, but how can that be? They aren't robots or clones.

If I'm not mistaken each have cut for me and IMO one is better for me. Also, I've had fittings with each separately (as well as both at the same time) and one went for a closer fit every time.

Perhaps it is just my experience....

 

[Griffindork]

Do tell. Which is your preference?

 

[Kuro]

IME, based on my preferences and body shape, I like the cutting of one and the fitting of the other...

 

[Kuro]

^also to my eye their own clothes are cut and fit a little differently. Unmistakenly Cifonelli, but a little different. For example Massimo appears to like longer, tighter jackets with looser pants.

 

[SeamasterLux]

Regardless of how each shop handles orders, it's on them to get things right. Generally, that means the cutter should be there for fittings.

Also, there is the price point. NSM is half the price of Cifonelli. If you want to draw stronger conclusions regarding regional differences, Rubinacci is a better comparison. There you will get service more like what Cifonelli gets you, and from what I've seen, better workmanship. Mariano's strategy is to poach the best talent from all the different shops in Naples by paying top dollar (ahem, euro). I've heard a few of his competitors confirm that.

That's interesting. You consider that Rubinacci has better workmanship than Cifonelli?
What makes you say that? In terms of finishing details, I don't see anyone in the league of Cifonelli apart from Camps de Luca. Now for the structuring of the jacket, I also think that Cifonelli is outstanding. I'm very keen of getting your impressions.

Totally agree that the cutter should be on site for fittings.

NSM is actually 40% of the price of Cifonelli so I agree that they're playing in different leagues.

Cifo, Camps, Huntsman, Poole, Caraceni, Rubinacci are in the same pricing range.

 

[dirnelli]

And let us not forget Liverano and Panico in that price range.