French Tailoring Thread (e.g. Camps de Luca, Cifonelli, Smalto and etc.)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by poorsod, Apr 28, 2013.



  1. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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  2. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    Granted, the shoulders of the light gray DB are too wide and the sleeve on the 3p is too short, both of which have been fixed since. I have no issue with the other suits. Perhaps my morphology or the pics themselves, though looking back on them I'm not sure I see your point.

    The Cifo RTW is Caruso, lovely stuff that fits well IMHO, though not quite as second-skin as their bespoke. Still alot better than most RTW out there.
     


  3. Kuro

    Kuro Senior member

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    Dirnelli, what differences do you see from your vintage cifo to what they are doing today?


    Mitterrand? Although I suppose that goes back to my question to Dirnelli...
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014


  4. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    Personally, I find that many of their trademark lines are somewhat similar throughout the ages, however construction is very different. The older stuff is a lot more structured and padded compared to today, which is much lighter and softer.
     


  5. Kuro

    Kuro Senior member

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    interesting.

    i was thinking it was just that they were cutting/tailoring smaller/closer.

    i like the lightness and softness of my garments, but after the first suit asked for the cut to be larger and looser ....
     


  6. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    I cannot speak to the closeness of the vintage bespoke, as it was not commissioned for me originally and needed alterations. However, the DB and SB lapel lines seemed quite similar, as did the shoulders. Quarters and more open now compared to the past I beleive.
     


  7. Quarks

    Quarks Senior member

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    I have read this whole thread from the start to end and I am floored by the knowledge that has been imparted through this discussion. Makes me want to throw out my suits and start from scratch. Amazing fit seen from the pictures and I am thoroughly impressed. The latest Rake has Cifonelli on the cover, and the article on them has triggered my interest.....
     


  8. TheTukker

    TheTukker Senior member

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    Really? I can see how they may be different from Cifo bespoke, but ill-fitting? If serious, please explain. :confused:
     


  9. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    Sure. The shoulders look nothing to me like Cifo bespoke, the hallmark of which is a swooping pagoda shoulder. These RTW shoulders are wonky, with wavy lines and differences in the shoulder line between the left and right shoulders. The armholes aren't high and contribute to those relatively sloppy sleeves. Each of the suits looks more like a sack suit to me than the fitted Cifonelli that I'm used to. Most of these look about a size too large in the shoulder (I would be interested to know whether all of these suits are the same size). I said that they were ill-fitting compared to Cifo bespoke, not ill-fitting in general. You can see lots of bespoke Cifonelli on this site and others. I don't think they are remotely similar.
     


  10. TheTukker

    TheTukker Senior member

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    Understood - thanks; I now see what you meant. They are indeed not very similar to Cifo bespoke, but they generally do have a good fit. The DBs and 3pc may be larger cut, but that may just be how Dirnellli likes it, just as (slightly) extended shoulders. They just seem to be different animals than Cifo bespoke.
     


  11. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    I think we run the risk of getting this thread off topic if we start arguing that the ready-to-wear line should look identical to the bespoke line. Everybody knows that this is never the case when a bespoke house offers both. The Cifo ready-to-wear line does not have the high armholes and pronounced pagoda roped shoulder of the bespoke, nor does it have the shoulders turned forward to give it the signature small chest look. As I said, that's to be expected, as the RTW is a Caruso-made product, they are not carbon copies of the bespoke line.

    Putting that aside, let me just add that I measure 1m81, weigh 89 kg, with a benchmark shoulder to shoulder measurement across the back on my Camps de Luca suit of 50 cm. So, although you may see these shoulders as too wide, I can assure you that IRL the suits are well fitted to my overall morphology. Furthermore, Lorenzo and Massimo personally did the alterations on examples 1, 2 and 5. So, I can assure you that the fit is perfect. On the three-piece suit, it's a ready-to-wear piece from another period, different model, but it fits well. The sky suit had the most problems, the model is very very different, the alterations were done elsewhere, and I don't have a current pic to show.

    It's interesting to compare the DB's in example 3 and 5, because example 3 is the same model as example 5, before I had the shoulders taken in. We will all agree that example 5 looks better. However, example 3 looks like example 5 today, now that Lorenzo and Massimo took in the shoulders.

    Lastly, regarding the sleeves, yes, the armholes are not as high on ready-to-wear as on the spoke, obviously. However, given the pose I'm striking, with both arms not hanging straight beside the body, I would be hesitant to pass judgment about waviness. Indeed, if you were to see all these suits with the arms hanging straight down from the shoulders, the sleeves fall perfect.

    I've seen this SF game play out before, (cf. NSM thread with Mafoofan snark wigout), it's counterproductive to comment on perceived flaws based on pics. Crompton has begun to warn about it when posting, to cut pic criticism short. The only way to assess fit is in person with tailors, or knowledgable observers, in front of a mirror. There, you can really judge what's wrong -- not from an iPhone selfie.
     


  12. Dandy Wonka

    Dandy Wonka Senior member

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    Dirnelli, I am surprised that Cifonelli does RTW that is so different from their "signature" look. Seems risky from a branding and marketing perspective?

    A cash grab that could backfire if the garments are not as impressive as they should be as their reputation could suffer badly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014


  13. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    I'm not saying that the RTW should be the same as the bespoke. I'm just saying that I'm surprised at the look of those suits compared to what I know about Cifo. My experience with Lorenzo is that he is fanatical about making things look perfect in a way that isn't represented by many of those pictures. It isn't an attack on you and it isn't off-topicin a thread about French tailoring. Surely it is worth noting the differences and what one gets from the extra money. No reason to get defensive. It is just an observation. I actually think your pictures make a nice comparison with the pictures Seamaster Lux has posted in this thread as it helps illustrate what is really unique about Cifo bespoke.
     


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