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French Tailoring Thread (e.g. Camps de Luca, Cifonelli, Smalto and etc.)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by poorsod, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

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    OK guys, Ox's blowup and the surrounding noise by others has been cleaned up. Ox has been given the rest of the month off. Let's keep this great thread on topic from now on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
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  2. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    Yes, a S180's by Schofield that is truly amazing, no idea which bunch it comes from, wish I knew. Schofield offered 2 suiting lengths to CdL gratis as a demo, so it may even have been a prototype limited run. Marc de Luca had made up the first length for himself and was really impressed by the fabric -- he would pull the suit out of his suitcase at his hotel and it was still in perfect shape. He convinced me to try it by letting me have it at the entry level suit cost, since it was leftover demo fabric, so I jumped on the unique opportunity to try a S180 without paying the premium associated with high Supers.

    This fabric holds a trouser crease (and the signature CdL vents crease) like nothing I've ever seen. I was totally surprised, as all of my other high Super suits are quite the opposite, rumpling like kleenex.

    From this I learned that the Super # itself is predictive of nothing about fabric behaviour -- it also depends on weight and how the fabric is woven (e.g. ultra high twist? what is mixed in? ) So, you can have high & low Super numbers that behave similarly, it just really all depends.

    (Glad this thread has enabled us to collectively debunk a few tailoring myths that get repeated unquestionably & ad nauseam on the fora.)
     
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  3. Kuro

    Kuro Senior member

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    ^ Dirnelli, could you post of a photo of the cdl creased vents? I forgot to ask to see when I was there last month. thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  4. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    A S180 with the handling of a traditional cloth can't be cheap. Congrats at getting it gratis. I'd be curious to know the premium for it at full price at CdL.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
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  5. SonofGoldman

    SonofGoldman Active Member

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    Oh, just out of curiosity, did you guys meet Cifonelli in NYC, or in Paris?

    How "often" are the fittings if done in NYC? Like from start to finish what is a reasonable expectation for the duration of a commission? Did any of you guys fly into NYC to have the work done or are you guys native? Thanks for all the information btw!
     
  6. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    Here you go:

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Kuro

    Kuro Senior member

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    Thanks.



    Both for me. They visit 5 - 6 times year, every other month or so. Time frame is going to depend on how many fittings you want/need and consider that it may be better to go slower the first time. Also, how many other orders they have and the time of year (e.g., they are closed in August) are also factors.
     
  8. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    For kicks, since I walk past it all the time:

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    One of the most extraordinary things I've ever heard Charlie Davidson of the Andover Shop say was that the best suits in Europe were from Camps de Luca. It's striking given his vast experience over 80 years with style and clothing.

    Dirnelli, I was reading your highly informative and comprehensive reviews of different suits and tailors: http://dirnelli.tumblr.com/post/49814477662/review-of-tailors-and-suits-ive-owned The handwork, as both Charlie and JefferyD would agree, is unsurpassed, and perhaps matched only by a few other tailors in Paris. But I was curious about how the bespoke experience at Camps exceeded your expectations, compared to the other famous tailoring houses. You mentioned that other bespoke experiences left you feeling somewhat unsatisfied, but that Camps more than met what you wanted I was wondering how they did so (perhaps in commitment to getting the fit right, and other respects)? I think Paul-Lux had a similar experience, as RJman relates.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  10. VRaivio

    VRaivio Senior member

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    Many thanks for the input, dirnelli! It's fascinating to read about French tailoring, specifically posts not tied to advertising deals, like PG must have.
     
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  11. SeamasterLux

    SeamasterLux Senior member

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    my Camps, worn recently in Paris

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. SeamasterLux

    SeamasterLux Senior member

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    Indeed my experience is pretty similar in the sense that Camps is much better than all the others as far as I'm concerned.

    I understand you may want to know why but there is not a single reason. Here are mine:
    - Marc de Luca is the only true gentleman I've ever met in tailoring, meaning he will never criticize other tailors, nor over-advertize his product (albeit being the best out there in my opinion), he is very humble and a very knowledgeable man. Stepping into their apartment is not like visiting any place, it's a journey where you'll learn a great number of things, regardless of how much you already know. There is an atmosphere that settles once you sit down in one of the two chairs surrounding a small table with a direct view on the Madeleine church and Marc de Luca greets you and goes through fabrics with you. I can't explain to be honest and I've tried several bespoke tailors from Cifonelli to Sartoria Ripense (my 2nd favorite) and also including Anderson & Sheppard and Gieves & Hawkes. It's just something else in terms of experience to start with.
    - The cut is breathtaking. I can look at my suit from every angle, I'll never be dissatisfied. I just love it. The lapel notch is my favorite, the buttonholes are exquisite, very fine and far superior to any you'll see in Italy and England, and I don't feel my suit when I'm wearing it. I also recently played snooker in that suit and felt very comfortable at all times. I also love the look of the shoulder style.

    I could also detail what I didn't like with others but I guess it's not the point.
     
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  13. ThinkDerm

    ThinkDerm Senior member

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    What did you not like about Cifonelli?
     
  14. SeamasterLux

    SeamasterLux Senior member

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    I wouldn't say that there was something I didn't like about Cifonelli, it's just one step below (although slightly).
    The cut is great, the details are magnificent as well and the experience was good overall.

    My preference goes to Camps as I have more respect for the man himself and for his approach to tailoring and also for the comfort of the suit.
    Once again, not that my Cifonelli isn't pleasant to wear, it's just not the same feeling.

    I think the relationship you have with your tailor is also important in the experience so it doesn't really matter at one point what you're reading on the internet, just go out there and discuss with the tailors, you'll get an opinion and a feeling by yourself and that's what's important.
     
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  15. Kuro

    Kuro Senior member

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    ^Interesting comments on CdL comfort...

    I'd like to add that sometimes there is a bit of a bustling atmosphere at Marbeuf. The vibe at CdL seemed calmer when I visited ...

    I really hope that isn't taken by anyone the wrong way.
     
  16. fassbinder

    fassbinder Senior member

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    Here is another photo of me in a bespoke suit from Marc Di Fiore, dormeuil super brio mohair. Photo by dirnelli.tumblr.com

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. SeamasterLux

    SeamasterLux Senior member

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    Because I think that's a funny fact, I'll post this picture where you'll see that we were photographed at the same spot ;-)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
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  18. HighToned

    HighToned Senior member

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    Yes, the atmosphere at Cifonelli and Camps de Luca are very different.

    There is always a lot of things going on at Cifonelli. The phone is ringing, lot of customers are passing by, in the cutting room they're all in front of each others.

    Because of the architecture... Cutting room is separate from the other staff by the entrance.
    So you will see people coming in and out to ask for example "Which is the right color of buttonholes" to Massimo or Lorenzo Cifonelli....


    At Camps de Luca,
    Every rooms of the workshop is connected, so the customer will never see the rest of the staff.
    On the cutting room they're not fronting each other, ceilling is higher, the view on Madeleine place is beautiful and there is some music.
    You got an appointment, it's quiet atmosphere, the chance of meeting other customers are rare.

    In my opinion, Camps de Luca's place is perfect for tailoring, location, design of each rooms, natural lighthing....



    SeamasterLux -> Funny to see you wearing a Camps de Luca suit at Nicolas's shop. : )
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  19. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    Very interesting to hear about the different atmospheres. I've only met Lorenzo in New York, and you have the option to visit him at his hotel, your office or even your home, so it is a very personal, one on one and uninterrupted meeting. I plan to be in Paris next month so I look forward to seeing the hustle and bustle of the mothership.

    One thing that shouldn't get lost in this thread is that outside of both being bespoke and both being French, I'm not sure that Camps and Cifo are really very similar to one another in terms of styling. I have no experience with Camps, but the pictures don't look like Cifo suits. I would think that the fundamental choice one is making by selecting between those two is one of styling (that is certainly the choice that I made). If you like the Camps style more than the Cifo, or vice versa, then it is very easy to select on over the other.
     
  20. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    By the way - this thread sorely needs some shoes. Anyone with bespoke Dmitri Gomez that they can show off?
     

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