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French Tailoring Thread (e.g. Camps de Luca, Cifonelli, Smalto and etc.)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by poorsod, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. OTM

    OTM Senior member

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    Wonderful thread! There was an earlier mention of Gambler cornering the market, do they provide the best value? Do they speak English?
     
  2. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    No idea if they speak English.

    I meant cornering the market for cheap cheap MTM suits. I probably shouldn't have mentionned Gambler in this thread on bespoke tailoring, we're talking different worlds.

    If you want to know more about the different MTM offerings in Paris I suggest you check out the link to my blog entry posted upthread, where I reviewed almost all the tailors, shirtmakers and bootmakers in Paris.
     
  3. VRaivio

    VRaivio Senior member

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    1 person likes this.
  4. fassbinder

    fassbinder Senior member

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    1) The suit was made in September 2011. I don't want to get into the price thing as things may have changed and it is always best to ask the tailor directly. I will say that at the time it was more than 2000 and less than 3000 euro.

    2) Concerning French tailors I have several Di Fiore suits and several Cifo. I am by no means an expert and not technical at all. I find both comfortable but the Cifo's are cut closer. The Cifo are a bit more sculpted and structured in the shoulders, waist and skirt. Cifo also has a higher armhole. The Di Fiore suit is a bit lighter and softer but nothing like a Neapolitan coat. However it is definitely more Italian school than English. It is extremely comfortable and I forget that I am wearing it, which is really the most important thing in my opinion. Everything fits pretty much spot on. The cut is a bit more middle of the road French than Cifo. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing as the Cifo suits definitely have a more stylized look. The finishing and handiwork on the Cifo is in a different league. But I am not a particularly demanding customer in this regard and find Di Fiore's finishing to be fine. Di Fiore's default notch is distinctive and definitely Parisian. I find it to be quite attractive. As someone noted above, the French styling is what it is. You either like it or you don't. Finally, his pants are generally excellent.

    Di Fiore is pretty flexible about certain stylistic things within reason. The pictured suit has a bit of roping, which I requested, but I have other suits without any roping. I usually request the lightest shoulder padding that he is comfortable with. He can put a bit more or less ease in the chest, but it will not be structured english chest or a drapey Anderson chest; it will be a clean chest. The quarters of the jacket are open by default somewhat more than Cifo and definitely Italian in this regard, but not at all extreme. I have varied the lapel width on some orders. For the pictured suit I requested a wider lapel. We have also varied the length of the jacket and buttoning points, here and there, but I like his defaults. Both Cifo and Di Fiore cut a relatively shorter jacket than the English, like the Italians. My suits have no shoulder extension, but I know of one client who gets a bit of shoulder extension, creating a somewhat different and perhaps more relaxed look. I have never inquired as to how or why they settled on this extension, perhaps out of necessity because of the clients shape or perhaps for purely style reasons. In any event it looks quite attractive but I still feel too young for such a look.


    3) I found him the old fashioned way, I was "grandfathered" in by a family member. Not very igent or #menswear, I know. And since there was virtually nothing on the web until now, it was really the only way. Since that time I have become a bit of a hobbyist myself ;), so I won't hold it against you :).

    4) I am not the most demanding customer and I certainly did not overly bother him with igent details. I pretty much just chose the cloth and gave feedback at fittings. I really find him to be a very nice and relaxed person to work with. Very personable. I have always been satisfied with his work and he has always corrected any problems that arose. But like I said, my requests have never been that unusual or demanding. I think he is a great value if you like the French style and more specifically his work. For his price I would not expect the level of finishing and handwork one finds at Camps or Cifo.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  5. Kuro

    Kuro Senior member

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    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  6. vinveritas

    vinveritas Senior member

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    Thanks Kuro for entertaining read.
     
  7. mans72

    mans72 Well-Known Member

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  8. vinveritas

    vinveritas Senior member

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    Thanks also Vraivio for sharing the Marc de Luca interview. I bookmarked your blog, which is a revelation.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. Kuro

    Kuro Senior member

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  10. Kuro

    Kuro Senior member

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    nice video on cifonelli:
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    I remember once hearing Charlie Davidson, whose Andover Shop I love, expressing the highest regard for Camps de Luca. It was a surprising moment to witness two tailoring worlds -- the traditional American and the Parisian -- meeting.

    I was looking at Dirnelli's great site, and noticed the beautiful sportscoat that Julien de Luca was wearing, made by his grandfather Mario de Luca. I especially like how the sleevehead seems more natural and less roped compared to most French jackets (there's less of "une cigarette"). If we look at JeffreyD's helpful illustration, the sleevehead looks more like the middle picture than the left one. In all three of JeffreyD's pictures, there's the same amount of shoulder padding and width, but the sleevehead differs.

    Would it be possible for Camps to make a more natural sleevehead like the one on Julien de Luca's perfect sportscoat, without the prominent roping of their contemporary jackets? I like everything else about their cut and shoulders.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Source: http://dirnelli.tumblr.com/image/53751943710

    Source: http://www.styleforum.net/t/245858/shoulder-expression
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  12. Kuro

    Kuro Senior member

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  13. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    I'm sure it's possible. A good alterations tailor can add or remove cigarette/roping at will -- I've done experiments both ways. There are some pics of the results on my blog.

    Therefore, if your local alterations guy can handle it, I don't see why the big league tailors at CdL could't rope as much or as little as a customer demands.

    Caution however -- messing with the house style is something I've learned to avoid, from painful experience. Better to seek out a different tailor than to ask them to make a garment that is different from the house style.

    CdL once refused a client whose bespoke wish was simply to have a copy made of a Dior suit. They politely advised him to buy it from Dior instead. CdL are very curteous, as always, but if the scene had taken place with neapolitan tailors instead you can bet tempers would have flared.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    +1 on not changing the house style
     
  15. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    I did exactly that at A&S as a laugh but my suit did not come back as one of my beloved Huntsman.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  16. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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  17. Supergenius

    Supergenius Senior member

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    I don't think anyone ever answered the question about Lanvin - is their bespoke service up to the same standards as Cifonelli or CdL?
     
  18. dirnelli

    dirnelli Senior member

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    My understanding is that it is, but I have yet to meet anyone who has commissioned a bespoke suit there. RJMan has a bespoke shirt from Lanvin which he describes as stellar. I own a thrifted vintage Lanvin suit, which may be bespoke or MTM, I'm not sure, but it is magnificiently made, that's for sure. So, Lanvin bespoke seems to be flying under the radar, probably in part because there is a brand premium making their prices stratospheric, and in part because their high fashion image does not serve them well when it comes to attracting a new clientele of tailoring geeks (like myself) who would potentially post raving reviews of their bespoke operations.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  19. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    There's a series of 14 excellent video interviews with Marc de Luca on Rue de Experts. The first ten seconds of each video open with the same introduction, but then the videos have different content: http://www.ruedesexperts.com/expert/video/56

    One of the most interesting was with Marc de Luca on how a suit should fit, and how a tailor takes measurements: http://www.ruedesexperts.com/video/un-costume-bien-coupe-dmlkZW8vNDg4.html

    Mr. de Luca's suggestions for elegance. Note that the suit Julien de Luca is wearing fits flawlessly: http://www.ruedesexperts.com/video/petits-conseils-d-elegance-dmlkZW8vNDg1.html

    Charles de Luca on how a shirt should fit: http://www.ruedesexperts.com/video/une-chemise-de-qualite-dmlkZW8vNDg2.html

    The tuxedo or "le smoking": http://www.ruedesexperts.com/video/le-smoking-dmlkZW8vNDgz.html

    The cost of bespoke (featuring a vicuna coat): http://www.ruedesexperts.com/video/prix-du-costume-sur-mesure-dmlkZW8vNDgx.html

    Why go bespoke. Marc points out that many high-end RTW brands put only 15 hours into a suit (Kiton takes 25 hours), whereas Camps de Luca devotes 70 hours: http://www.ruedesexperts.com/video/le-retour-du-sur-mesure-dmlkZW8vNDgy.html

    Caring for a suit. Air after wearing, and dry clean only once a year: http://www.ruedesexperts.com/video/entretenir-un-costume-dmlkZW8vNDgw.html

    The other videos can be found after the first link.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
    5 people like this.
  20. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    I thought that Lanvin was offering a made to measure product where a customer's measurements are fit into an existing block pattern. Nothing wrong with that and you can get a wonderful product, but that isn't in the same solar system as Cifonelli.
     

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