French Cuff Style Button Down Collar?

[Polo Collar]

I couldn't see why you think normal button down shirts are not suitable for tie, which is a pretty common combination, maybe it's because you associate button down with things Gap and Uniqlo sell. But men wear tie with button down shirt long before fast fashion is a thing.

 

[apd90700]

I couldn't see why you think normal button down shirts are not suitable for tie, which is a pretty common combination, maybe it's because you associate button down with things Gap and Uniqlo sell. But men wear tie with button down shirt long before fast fashion is a thing.

View attachment 1610157 View attachment 1610158

Class divide, class divide. Those of higher socio-economic standing likely wanted specialization of dress wear in order to differentiate themselves as style forward. Those using the OCBD were polo players, or those in athletic situations demanding a collar stay down via the buttons. During its nascent years, the OCBD with a tie would probably be like wearing a gym shirt in a more formal occasion. Those of means probably turned their noses up at this, and thus the stigma of wearing OCBD with a tie was born. As years progress from the provenance of these social constructs we likely have a lessening of histrionics regarding when a OCBD can, and should not be worn. In the most formal occasions it is probably best to follow the most strict formality, such as no OCBD with a tie. In modern America, in non-black/white tie situations, you will likely have no problems wearing an OCBD with a tie. Those who are against the look, and strongly so, may have had heavy influence from others in their style formative years. That said, style progresses from those starting points in history, if it didn't then we would still be held back by the old adage of, "no brown in town..."

 

[dieworkwear]

Class divide, class divide. Those of higher socio-economic standing likely wanted specialization of dress wear in order to differentiate themselves as style forward. Those using the OCBD were polo players, or those in athletic situations demanding a collar stay down via the buttons. During its nascent years, the OCBD with a tie would probably be like wearing a gym shirt in a more formal occasion. Those of means probably turned their noses up at this, and thus the stigma of wearing OCBD with a tie was born. As years progress from the provenance of these social constructs we likely have a lessening of histrionics regarding when a OCBD can, and should not be worn. In the most formal occasions it is probably best to follow the most strict formality, such as no OCBD with a tie. In modern America, in non-black/white tie situations, you will likely have no problems wearing an OCBD with a tie. Those who are against the look, and strongly so, may have had heavy influence from others in their style formative years. That said, style progresses from those starting points in history, if it didn't then we would still be held back by the old adage of, "no brown in town..."

Don't understand what you mean by this. But OCBD + tie is a very classic American combination.

 

[comrade]

"During its nascent years, the OCBD with a tie would probably be like wearing a gym shirt in a more formal occasion. Those of means probably turned their noses up at this, and thus the stigma of wearing OCBD with a tie was born. "

"nascent years"? . By the 1920s younger members of the Ivy-educated WASP elite were wearing button-downs.
Here is Princeton drop-out F.Scott Fitzgerald in 1921

 

[apd90700]

Agreed, and I guess I'll clarify by saying I am on the OCBD with tie side of things here. I was trying to explain to the person I was responding to that there is in certain circles a stigma to wearing OCBD with a tie, which probably originated from how the OCBD came into existence.

Also, just because certain people were innovative in style doesn't preclude those of higher socio-economic means from turning their noses up. Younger members of Ivy-educated WASP elite might be doing so just to thumb their noses at their overbearing parents, but I won't over-speculate there.

Don't understand what you mean by this. But OCBD + tie is a very classic American combination.

View attachment 1610287

"During its nascent years, the OCBD with a tie would probably be like wearing a gym shirt in a more formal occasion. Those of means probably turned their noses up at this, and thus the stigma of wearing OCBD with a tie was born. "

"nascent years"? . By the 1920s younger members of the Ivy-educated WASP elite were wearing button-downs.
Here is Princeton drop-out F.Scott Fitzgerald in 1921
View attachment 1610321

 

[comrade]

Hmm. I stopped wearing BDs at around 30. I'm Ivy -educated,
not WASP. A member of some elites, even at that age, but not
THE ELITE. My parents were somewhat overbearing, but not
about clothes. My Dad was very trad, but not Ivy-educated.
His shirts were all bespoke, but never a BD. Now that I think of it,
my slide from the BD paradigm probably began 10 years before
when I purchased several detached collar shirts at Harrods. The
shirts went well with a suit I later had made in Madrid. I gave the tailor
my BB sport coat to copy. He didn't exactly copy it. He "interpreted"
it. Based on these clothing choices I could have changed my name to
Joaquin or Luca. Stateside, the outfit proved to be a chick magnet.

 

[dieworkwear]

Hmm. I stopped wearing BDs at around 30. I'm Ivy -educated

I wear button-downs and got into Harvard once. I used bolt cutters and then cut the alarm.

 

[comrade]

"I used bolt cutters and then cut the alarm."

I am sure that it is an erudite and meaningful metaphor,
but i don't get it. Please explain.

 

[Duke Santos]

OCBD with a tie is perfectly fine. OCBD with french cuffs is an obomination worthy of Men's USA (look it up).

That's pretty much all I have to add to this discussion.

As for Harvard, I still have a t-shirt that says "Harvard: The University of Chicago of the East."

 

[comrade]

I went to grad school at the U of Chicago.

 

[Encathol Epistemia]

I went to Drexel and UPenn. They're both just a few blocks from the El.

I don't mislike O.. C.. double Ds? I'm not sure what we're talking about, but having buttons or whatever on collars seems like too much extra fussing atop everything else that a man has to manipulate to satisfy himself.

Hmmm. That came out badly.

 

[Polo Collar]

Also, just because certain people were innovative in style doesn't preclude those of higher socio-economic means from turning their noses up. Younger members of Ivy-educated WASP elite might be doing so just to thumb their noses at their overbearing parents, but I won't over-speculate there.

What's the point of trying to argue in favor of this using lots of sociological jargons. Just wear it if you want, no one is going to kill you if you do that, except members of this forum.

 

[JJ Katz]

To the OP:

A BD with linked cuffs is quite quirky and never had a following.

My guess is that you won’t enjoy it much.

If you feel otherwise, NO ONE other that clothes geeks like us will notice the solecism; just that you are wearing “dapper” links.

 

[apd90700]

To the OP:

A BD with linked cuffs is quite quirky and never had a following.

My guess is that you won’t enjoy it much.

If you feel otherwise, NO ONE other that clothes geeks like us will notice the solecism; just that you are wearing “dapper” links.

The idea was a button down using cuff links rather than normal buttons. Which I believe most in the thread overlooked or misinterpreted. So instead of the links at the cuffs, the buttons at the collar would be links.

 

[FlyingHorker]

I went to Drexel and UPenn. They're both just a few blocks from the El.

I don't mislike O.. C.. double Ds? I'm not sure what we're talking about, but having buttons or whatever on collars seems like too much extra fussing atop everything else that a man has to manipulate to satisfy himself.

Hmmm. That came out badly.

It's pretty much the opposite for me. I never iron or have to straighten out a collar, or worry about a collar laying neatly, or flying away, or collar stays.

I've never had to unbutton the "buttoned down" part of the collar either.

I admit I'm fussy about having my BDs hang a particular way in my closet though. I try to not crush the roll with other shirts squished in.