Frederick Scholte (Savile Row)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by CrimsonSox, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    Good call -- I was puzzled by that too, especially since the Duke wore a white vest in the photographs I've seen of him in a tailcoat.

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  2. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    What an extraordinary experience. How were the measurements on the jacket? The Duke remarked that one of the keys to Scholte's tailoring was the "the perfect balance of proportions between shoulders and waist in the cut of a coat." How was the level of handwork, compared to bespoke of today?

    Hawes and Curtis was the Duke's shirt-maker and haberdasher. It's very different now, without the bespoke offerings, but in the 1920s and 30s it was regarded above Turnbull and Asser. I'll have to post a review of various London tailors and shirtmakers from a book published in 1930 when I have the chance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013


  3. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    It was the second suit I have seen in person of the Duke. I guess it was an equivalent of a 34 UK or smaller. I was there primarily to take a pattern of the evening waistcoat (with fix yoke rather then the rental adjustable) and a one ended bow tie. I have only really took the width of lapel measure which was surprisingly the same that the ones my tailor cut for me ~11cm. It was a visible shaped jacket but did not have a massive drop or a lot of chest build up.
     


  4. andreyb2

    andreyb2 Senior member

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    Please do -- that would be very interesting.

    Andrey
     


  5. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    London is a Man's Town by Helen Josephy and Mary Margaret McBride was published in 1930 as a guide to shops in the city. It's one of those secret treasures in Widener Library -- it's been borrowed only three times before, in 1999, 1965, and 1956. The section on tailors is quite interesting:

    Quote: Scholte has created a style of his own -- one with a very full chest, broad shoulders and narrow hips. He never tried to sell a man a suit of clothes in his life, and if an employee tries to do so, he gets the sack at once. You step in, supposedly needing a certain suit or suits, see materials, decide on a suit, pay for it when it is finished and that's the end of it. You could go there for fifteen years and he would never ask you if you wouldn't like another suit in addition to the one you've just ordered.

    Another tailor who holds royal warrants to the King and Prince of Wales as well as the late King Edward is Davies and Son, 19 and 20 Hanover Street. This firm was established in 1804 by the late Thomas Davies.

    Anderson and Sheppard, 30 Savile Row, are especially good for young men and all dress clothes, as are Kilgour and French, Ltd., 33A Dover Street, W.I. The former has made clothes for the Prince of Wales. Customers have a different cutter for coat and trousers.

    Gieves, Ltd., Royal Naval Outfitters, 21 Old Bond Street, with a back door opening on the Burlington Arcade, made uniforms for officers who fought against America in the War of 1812. Customers' names recall stirring actions at sea. The gallant Captain Broke of Shannon and Chesapeake fame, and such great naval heroes as Rodney, Howe, Collingwood, Barham and Hood were on the books. The firm had the honor of providing the outfit of King George V when he first joined the Royal Navy and so holds a personal royal warrant to the King, also one to the Prince of Wales.

    A naval commander told us that if a British naval officer in China or Chile suddenly needed a dress uniform or a warm overcoat he could cable Gieves who has his measurements and in no time at all the uniform would arrive, a perfect fit. Gieves sells all kinds of civilian clothes and outfittings, too.

    Hawkes and Company, Ltd., 1 Savile Row, are military tailors.

    If you fancy a tailor with a romantic address there are two in particular --- Carr, Son and Woor, Ltd., 14 Savile Row, where the playwright Sheridan once lived; and Harrison and Martin, LTd., 17 South Molton Street, where William Blake, the poet and painter, lived.

    The great authorities on overcoats in London are Simpson and London, 79 Grosvenor Street, W.I.

    For riding breeches, Tautz and Company, 12 Grafton Street, is excellent; and H. Huntsman and Sons, 11 Savile Row, furnishes good hunting clothes.

    For beautiful evening clothes, Johns and Bonham, Ltd., 38 Albemarle Street, is popular with smart men-about-town.

    In the review, the King is George V, the Prince of Wales is the future Duke of Windsor, and the Duke of York is the future George VI, who was the subject of The King's Speech.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013


  6. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    London is a Man's Town (1930) on shirtmakers. Mr. Curtis refers to F.P. Curtis, the co-founder of Hawes and Curtis, and the author of one the original books on men's style, Clothes and the Man (which shares the same title as Alan Flusser's first book). Note Curtis' advice on evening dress:

    Quote:
    Hawes and Curtis, Piccadilly Arcade and Jermyn Street, in the heart of the Club district, is a new firm, established in 1913. Mr. Curtis is an authority on evening dress and has done more to keep shirt fronts from bulging out of up-creeping waistcoats than any other young man in London. Evening shirts and waistcoats are made on scientific mathematical lines -- yet are chic withal. Mr. Curtis explained to us that American men have a miserable time in evening clothes because their trousers aren't high enough. Evening trousers must be cut high in the body and worn with braces so that the trouser top is above the waistline. Then you can get a waistcoat to fit.

    Dress shirts must be made so long as to allow an inch to an inch and a half between the top of the trousers and the bottom of the stiff front. The stiff front must be narrow, too, so that it gives the impression of a broad chest. A broad shirt front stands away from the chest instead of lying flat on it. Things have been gradually getting better with shirt fronts though, Mr. Curtis says cheeringly. This shop has a tailoring department which Jack Buchanan patronizes.

    Turnbull and Asser, 71 Jermyn Street, are specialists in the most beautiful sports ties, shirts, cravats and pull-overs. This is the one London shop which physically as well as spiritually is the masculine counterpart of a feminine Paris establishment. Everything is esthetically right here from the rhinoceros horn door-knobs and bottle-glass panes to the special dressing-gown salons in the basement.

    The walls are bordered with sporting prints of famous English huntsmen and racing men, each autographed by the man himself. Upstairs are the scarfs, shirts and Quorn hunting stocks, some embroidered in regimental, or club, or school insignia. Downstairs are the dressing gowns, cabinets full of marvelously figured crepe de Chines lined in solid colors that harmonize, and are seen under blue bulbs that give perfect daylight. The Duke of York, as well as the Prince of Wales, buys here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013


  7. comrade

    comrade Senior member

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    Black vest? It is well known among the cognoscenti that the Duke occasionally doubled as a waiter. To show that the ex-monarch was a man of the people, etc.
     


  8. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    I wanted to help get a Scholte into the hands of JefferyD or another forum member. I found two substantial archives. The first is in the "Royal Ceremonial Dress Collection" at Kensington Palace. They have a single breasted tweed suit, a double breasted tweed suit, and an evening suit by Scholte. They are usually not publicly displayed, but the museum notes that you can see them if you make an appointment with Jenny Wedgbury, [email protected], Tel. 020 3166 6626. The Scholte suits are stored in the archives "for anyone studying costume history, design and fashion studies." http://www.hrp.org.uk/MediaPlayer/ViewPlaylist.aspx?PlaylistId=121&SiteMapId=1777

    The Royal Ceremonial Dress Collection at Kensington Palace was the archive that the costume designers for the film W.E. used to study the construction and measurements of the Duke of Windsor's suits: http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/entert...m-we-costume-designer-interview/viewgallery/4

    A second archive is at the Costume Institute of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, which has a morning suit, an evening suit, a double-breasted suit, and a tweed suit. I'm not sure about their access policies: http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/search-the-collections?ft=scholte&ao=on&noqs=true
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013


  9. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    Sometimes I like to dress like my crazy grand-uncle.

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    An unsurpassed fit by Scholte. You wouldn't add or take away a millimeter from that perfectly proportioned shoulder. The sleeve flows flawlessly into the jacket:

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    Scholte, 1939:

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    The sewing is extremely fine and is hardly visible in the shoulder and top of the sleevehead:

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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013


  10. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    A cleanly finished lapel buttonhole (click for detail):

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  11. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    How did you find the book? Widener is not exactly browsable.
     


  12. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    Hi Poorsod. I did a Google book search for "F.P. Scholte" and "7 Savile Row" (the address of his firm) and saw the book. I found it in the Widener catalog and borrowed it. I'll post more excerpts from it in the coming days, and a review of Savile Row tailors from the New Yorker, 1929.

    In the archives, Scholte is sometimes misspelled "Sholte," so it's useful to search under that name (that's how I found the newspaper article above on the cost of his suits), as well as "Frederick Scholte." Did you know, by the way, that Lawrence of Arabia was a client, when not wearing his Arab dress?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013


  13. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    I have not managed to verify other Scholte customers from the pictures available but this may be one of his (note the absence of a front dart and only un under arm one)
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    Edit: more pictures
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    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013


  14. CrimsonSox

    CrimsonSox Senior member

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    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013


  15. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I have a copy at home. You are welcome to borrow it if you like.
     


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