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Formula 1 - F1 - Current Season Discussion

Joffrey

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No idea where you folks are getting the bad vibes from Lando Norries (Drive to Survive?). The si article linked above simply has him explaining he got damage when Piastri clashed with Ocon. What else is he supposed to say? I really had the impression he would be quoted as saying Piastri is not delivering setup/feedback wise which is holding the team back but nope nothing remotely of the sort just damage from a racing incident involved his car, required repairs and thus compromised his race.
 

sugarbutch

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I am not a Lando fan, but other than general whininess, he doesn’t elicit much ire from me.
 

HRoi

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Anyone can feel however they want about his personality, but i still push back on any notion that he’s not a good/high potential driver or is overrated. His data and results quite obviously disprove those assertions.
 

Duke Santos

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Anyone can feel however they want about his personality, but i still push back on any notion that he’s not a good/high potential driver or is overrated. His data and results quite obviously disprove those assertions.

In a nutshell, he's timid and never outperforms his car. He tries to drive a technically perfect race as if he's in a world beating car. Lacks any real edge that drives someone to become a championship driver. Constantly finishes lower than he qualifies. As I said earlier, he'll be remembered as a consistent middle of the pack driver who never managed to dig down and find those intangibles that make a champion.
 

HRoi

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He finishes lower than he qualifies because his qualifying time frequently beats good drivers in better cars. But if you have worse machinery, there’s really nothing you can do but get exposed in a 300+ km race.

Since he became Mclaren’s top driver, he’s finished sixth and seventh in the drivers’ championship, with the fourth or fifth best car (and at times in the season, much worse - such as the first quarter of ‘21). The only way you think that’s underperforming is if you somehow think McLaren fielded a better car than RB, Mercedes, or Ferrari.

What’s a “technically perfect race”? Don’t all drivers try to drive a technically perfect race? Meaning the best possible lap time?

Finally, not many championship intangibles are there to be found if your car is more than half a second per lap slower than the next tier up
 

yorkshire pud

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You can only really compare Norris to his McLaren team-mates IMHO

He pretty much matched Carlos Sainz Jr (who had plenty of experience)

Comprehensively beat Danny Ric (despite his decade of good results)

Too early to say with Piastri

When he has had a competitive car he has been impressive enough

I think the past two seasons must have been demoralising and his heart just isn't in it for midfield positions, he is biding his time for a decent drive

Sometimes if it ain't working it's time to jump ship and look for a new challenge
 

bgsmith

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I agree with the above, I think Lando is a decent driver but he has a piss poor attitude and honestly hasn’t earned or proven that he deserves a seat on a better team, let’s compare him to Perez and Sainz for instance, he was teammates with Carlos and you can pretty much say they tied each other in 2020, same team, same car, with Sainz getting a leg up in him more than likely due to more experience, now with Perez there is no such direct comparison but Checo seams to have accepted that he is the clear #2 at RB and in my opinion has been a great teammate to Max, I will say the same about Carlos in that he is a the clear #2 at Ferrari to their golden boy LeClerc, despite outperforming him in 2021.

My point being, would Norris accept that role as a clear #2 on either of those teams? I don’t think he would and he would be a headache to all involved.

Now to look at MB, Lewis is the #1 in my opinion simply based on past performance and what he brings to the team in experience, George is a great fit on that team because he knows this and knows his time will come, he is a great driver and while Lando may be on par with him I don’t see him accepting the role within the team the way George has based on his attitude.

Bottom line is I think Lando is a talented driver that would probably do really well in a better car but he just needs to wait for his time to come, and with his current attitude I don’t think it’s helping his chances at getting a seat in a better car/team.
 

yorkshire pud

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I agree with the above, I think Lando is a decent driver but he has a piss poor attitude and honestly hasn’t earned or proven that he deserves a seat on a better team, let’s compare him to Perez and Sainz for instance, he was teammates with Carlos and you can pretty much say they tied each other in 2020, same team, same car, with Sainz getting a leg up in him more than likely due to more experience, now with Perez there is no such direct comparison but Checo seams to have accepted that he is the clear #2 at RB and in my opinion has been a great teammate to Max, I will say the same about Carlos in that he is a the clear #2 at Ferrari to their golden boy LeClerc, despite outperforming him in 2021.

My point being, would Norris accept that role as a clear #2 on either of those teams? I don’t think he would and he would be a headache to all involved.

Now to look at MB, Lewis is the #1 in my opinion simply based on past performance and what he brings to the team in experience, George is a great fit on that team because he knows this and knows his time will come, he is a great driver and while Lando may be on par with him I don’t see him accepting the role within the team the way George has based on his attitude.

Bottom line is I think Lando is a talented driver that would probably do really well in a better car but he just needs to wait for his time to come, and with his current attitude I don’t think it’s helping his chances at getting a seat in a better car/team.
If LeClerc goes to Mercedes-Benz Lando would be a good fit at Ferrari with Carlos (assuming Lewis retires and doesn’t go for one last title with either team.)

If Perez keeps up rocking the boat at RBR that seat could also open up for him if they decide Ricciardo is a spent force
 

Schwazer

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HRoi

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good analysis, although I think “arrogant” is a better word than “greedy” for Porsche.

This kind of illustrates how weird VAG is. Instead of going after Sauber and then deciding later what brand to slap on the car (Porsche, duh), they actually compete against each other to grab a team.
 

yorkshire pud

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good analysis, although I think “arrogant” is a better word than “greedy” for Porsche.

This kind of illustrates how weird VAG is. Instead of going after Sauber and then deciding later what brand to slap on the car (Porsche, duh), they actually compete against each other to grab a team.
I think they should have just used the basic VW branding for F1 (or at least until they become competitive)

Porsche for endurance racing.

Audi for rallying.

Lamborghini for street cars.

They could also resurrect the Bugatti name in grand prix racing as it has the most form in that category.

It just makes sense to keep the brands "historically pure" from a racing point of view instead of the infighting.
 

sugarbutch

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Except that Audi has a recent-ish run of incredible success in endurance racing. That horse is already out of the barn. The Dakar Audis are pretty cool, too. VW actually sells the type of cars used in rallying, so that makes sense for their brand. Bugatti is irrelevant, and it has no need for the kind of marketing spend that F1 entails. It also seems likely to become an electric brand given the tie-up with Rimac. Lamborghini's only racing pedigree is rich guys crashing into each other in Trofeo races, so I actually agree your suggestion there.
 

yorkshire pud

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Except that Audi has a recent-ish run of incredible success in endurance racing. That horse is already out of the barn. The Dakar Audis are pretty cool, too. VW actually sells the type of cars used in rallying, so that makes sense for their brand. Bugatti is irrelevant, and it has no need for the kind of marketing spend that F1 entails. It also seems likely to become an electric brand given the tie-up with Rimac. Lamborghini's only racing pedigree is rich guys crashing into each other in Trofeo races, so I actually agree your suggestion there.
Yep, bringing back Bugatti is my personal fantasy really 🤣

Although when bread and butter brands like Ford, Honda and possibly GM are competing I think the Volkswagen brand makes more sense than Porsche/Audi (at least until they are quick enough to compete with Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari).

They could always rebrand later on like Renault/Alpine did.

I could never see the sense of denigrating the Porsche brand racing in the midfield after the Red Bull deal collapsed to be honest.

If they really suck they always have Skoda to fall back on 😉
 
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sugarbutch

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The Alpine switch seemed more like a dodge to allow Renault to reset the clock on their 100 races to victory plan. Basically, it's less embarrassing for Alpine to lose in F1 because just being there is fine for that sub-brand, but it's humiliating for one of the titans of French industry to have its name dragged through the midfield.
 

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