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Formula 1 - F1 - Current Season Discussion

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by idfnl, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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    I'm not saying that he is not talented, he is. You don't get to that position unless you have talent. Well, you could be a pay driver, but that's a different argument.

    I understand the testing era argument, but simulators have come and immensely long way, they do mimic the cars very closely. Nothing replaces actual track time, but these drivers today grew up in the video game era.

    We have a lot of season left, but if the trend continues, we're going to have to significantly rewrite the book on Vettel. My original point was that this is now the storyline of the season, and I must admit I'm rather enjoying it.

    Have a feeling Ferrari are already regretting the decision to bring back kimi. Nico would look pretty good in that car right now.
     


  2. Joffrey

    Joffrey Stylish Dinosaur

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    Not sure how you compare someone with 4 championships to Damon Hill... He beat excellent drivers in great cars when the competition was closer (2010 and 2012) and blew people away when it wasn't - meanwhile getting everything out of the car with very little mistakes. Webber was a fantastic driver that also went head to head pretty well against Rosberg. He was no slouch but Vettel handily outshone him in a car and era that basically suited his driving nearly perfectly (except for 2010 his first championship). Now he's struggling (just four races) in a new era, let's see how he develops as the car comes together. Who knows maybe this is just the honeymoon period for Daniel, although I'm enjoying his making Seb eat the team orders. I truly believe Red Bull has done him a great disservice with how they treated him while teamed up with Webber. Very few people root for him when I believe he's probably one of the sharpest, fastest and likeable guys in the sport. However, I am enjoying Daniel's success, but it's pretty silly to count out Vettel.

    On the otherhand, Red Bull looks mighty clever for picking Daniel over Vergne. Although I think Vergne has been a little unlucky this year.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014


  3. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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    Pretty easy to compare. Damon had the best car by a mile and a novice teammate to F1. Had Damon had a Mark Webber and if Newey stayed with Williams, he'd have won 4 too. Villeneuve had an equal number of victories the 2nd half of the season. Webber was declining every season, so Vettel looked stronger and stronger. Damon didn't have that.

    To be clear, I am not counting him out, but my point stands: the really elite drivers in the history of F1 adapted to anything they were given. This doesn't made Vettel suck, but it starts to put an asterisk around his WC's, and over time they could easily become Newey's driver titles and not Sebs. The '96 Williams was all Newey's DNA even though he was not active that season.

    I give Red Bull a ton of credit for making the ruthless choices here. I expect Vettel to claw back some of the gap, but its a great story if Ricciardo stays ahead.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014


  4. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    If the RBR were that dominant, and Vettel contributed so little to the winning, you would have seen many more 1-2s. Think Schumi-Barrichello.
     


  5. Joffrey

    Joffrey Stylish Dinosaur

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    Exactly. Not to mention Schumacher struggled mightily in 2003 (relative to 2002 and 2004). No one is discounting his talent.

    Actually, maybe there weren't so many 1-2s because Webber sucked so much at starting...
     


  6. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    As Rosberg showed in China, a dominant car can make up for a shitty start.
     


  7. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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    This. I get the impression that Webber was a much weaker (though finished races and scored points) driver than we might have previously thought. And Webber almost pipped Vettel in 2010, I think that led to the illusion.



    Right now the Merc is more dominant than the RBR was last year.
     


  8. Joffrey

    Joffrey Stylish Dinosaur

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    I don't think Webber was a weak driver at all. I think he was very very good (bordering on excellent) but Vettel was simply a further step above him (at the Hamilton, Alonso level). Despite his teammate killing reputation I don't recall anyone ever suggesting Webber was the hottest driver on the grid. Good enough to be ecstatic that he finally got his chance at a proper championship car.
     


  9. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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    He completely lost motivation after 2010. If you use 2010 as comparison, they were on equal terms. So by proxy, that's the same line on Vettel.
     


  10. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    In 2010, Vettel beat Webber 12-6-1, and two of those 6 were Vettel retirements. That's not finishing on equal terms in my book. Webber definitely had a much better time of it that year, though.
     


  11. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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    Huh?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Formula_One_season

    Vettel won 4, Mark won 3, they were separated by 14 points in the WC.
     


  12. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    Vettel finished ahead of Webber in 12 of the 19 races. Webber ahead 6. Both DNF'd once.
     


  13. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    Also, Alonso almost won the championship, so clearly no car dominance.

    Would you agree that Webber was still on-song in 2009? Vettel had twice as many wins. Average starting position of 4.4 to Webber's 6.7. Average finish 3.8 to 5.2. Pole positions 4 to 1. And Webber already had his feet under the table when Seb showed up.

    To be clear, I think Webber was overrated, but by how much did Seb need to beat him for it to count as comprehensive and worthy of a champion?
     


  14. idfnl

    idfnl Stylish Dinosaur

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    ^ point taken, we'll let the season unfold the story.


    Saw BBC Panorama, the episode on Bernie Eccelstone. Wow. I understand now.

    Here's what he did:

    Historically, he bought the TV rights to F1 under the nose of the teams. Over time he transferred those rights slowly to a series of family trusts, the largest being called "Bambino". That "sale" brought in a massive windfall. But the company that held the largest stake in 2004/5 went bust.

    BLB, a German bank, now held the F1 broadcasting rights. Bernie was desperate to keep control. Here's the rub: Bernie was the only person that understood and had the information related to the plethora of complex deals that held F1 together, and basically held the bank to ransom and negotiated a bribe. The guy at the bank, Gerhard Gribkowsky, was in charge of handling the situation and was paid a 45m $ bribe to sell the rights to CVC partners, who coincidentally cut a deal to allow Bernie to remain in charge.

    Bernie paid the money to a foundation, but a journalist caught on to the transaction and notified the German authorities. The banker was indited and sentenced to 7 years in prison and admitted the bribe.

    Eccelstone stayed in power for 4 years in front of CVC partners until now. He's pretty much done for. Its an open and shut bribe.

    In addition, Eccelstone had transferred billions in wealth to his wife and kids thru tax havens in Lichtenstein and other avenues, thereby avoiding huge tax bills in Britain to the tune of 2 billion pounds, meaning that Eccelstone evaded taxes on more than 5 billion pounds.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014


  15. Joffrey

    Joffrey Stylish Dinosaur

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    Interesting. Love the little fart but the sport's been overdue for new leadership for at least 10 years.
     


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