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Formula 1 - F1 - Current Season Discussion

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by idfnl, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    Now we get to see if Alonso self destructs again. Kimi will give him a really hard time. I love it. Never been much of a Ferrari fan, but I am really glad they made this bold move.

    If only Vettel would move to Mercedes, wow, we'd have some sick competition.
     
  2. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Ferrari's move isn't bold. It's stupid and par for the course for Luca and company. Hulkenberg is (relatively) cheap, doesn't upset Alonso's apple cart, and would have gotten results. Of course Ferrari didn't go for him. For fuck's sake, he should have been in the red car *this* year. Better to be noble failures. If it were about winning, the tifosi would have been happier with Schumacher. Montezemolo has no incentive to succeed. He sells just as many cars when they lose as when they win, and there's essentially no one to hold him accountable. So, he can play Enzo, keep everyone destabilized, and still attract talent in the car and the factory because they're Ferrari.
     
  3. Joffrey

    Joffrey Senior member

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    With what car was he meant to achieve much?

    Sugarbutch - I agree Hulk would have been a no brainer. However, Alonso has been stirring up a lot of shit with the team this past summer. I think Ferrari management are simply reminding him that he's not indispensible. If he wants out, they have Raikkonen and can pick up an up and comer this year or next. If he stays, they're daring him to pull his immature shit from McLaren. Raikkonen is very low maintenance so I think they're banking on just having to manage Alonso (like they already do).
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  4. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I know this will make idfnl's blood boil, but Alonso is, as Roebuck would say, from the top drawer. If the Ferrari isn't winning in his hands, it isn't capable of winning. He's squandering WDC opportunities in the prime of his career, and if Ferrari think that his comments/behavior are holding them back, they need a rethink. I haven't seen that he's been publicly undermining the team (I don't count radio transmissions in the heat of the moment). I don't care for Alonso (mostly due to his antics at McLaren and the sense of entitlement he seems to have at Ferrari), but if I had a fast car, he would be on my list of drivers (with Lewis and Seb).
     
  5. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    Show me a race he's stood out in. Like what Perez did managing tires in that Sauber and his almost win. He's no superstar, but I don't see it in Hulk.


    Ya, Alonso can win in a winning car but he can't drive a team to success like Schumi did. Its not for lack of resources either. Newey has been with R Bull since 06, Schumi prime years.
     
  6. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I would argue that Stefano Domenicali cannot fill the void left by Ross Brawn and Jean Todt.
     
  7. Joffrey

    Joffrey Senior member

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    Definitely not, but the Ferrari in those days was the equivalent of Red Bull now. Top car, top driver, stumbling competition.

    Before Alonso won in the Renault in 2003, when did he star in a race? Raikkonen? Hulk has yet to have a podium or race winning car. Maybe he will dissappoint when given a top drive (like Perez though he's driving a dog this year), but I think he's one of the few young drivers on the grid that has shown he's worth a shot at a top drive (Paul di Resta too although nobody likes him).
     
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  8. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    Regarding Hulk, Grojean is a good matchup. We've seen how far apart he and Kimi are. If you see Hulk beat him by the same margin, then ya, I'm wrong and he's a top driver. If they finish races close then forget it. I like the crop of kids out there in junior formulas, but right now its really only Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Vettel.

    There are too many #2 drivers out there. Paid seats are fucking up the talent pool. In this respect you have to give the Red Bull junior program props since its actually letting real talent rise.

    Regarding Ferrari, Brawn was good, the package was good, Bridgestone favored Ferrari, etc. But what the hell, that team has the resources to hire anyone they want. Are you telling me they can't field a consistent winner in 4 seasons. Red Bull does brew magic sauce. I believe Schumi did much more to develop the car than Alonso. The Ferrari Alonso took over was much more competitive than the one Schumi inherited.
     
  9. Joffrey

    Joffrey Senior member

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    Grosjean is very, very fast, in my opinion. Just terribly inconsistent and lacks confidence. If he had his act together I think he would be on par with Raikkonen (remember he was head to head with him for a good while last season).
     
  10. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The testing situation is so drastically different than when Schumi was doing his thing at Ferrari. He could grind out hundreds of laps to find the tenths. Today a driver can spend hours in the simulator, but I think it's clear that the simulator isn't a perfect substitute for laps in the car. Ultimately, no driver can make the same contribution now.
     
  11. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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  12. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    This would explain a lot:

    Minardi raises Vettel 'traction control' doubts
    Doubts about the legitimacy of Sebastian Vettel's dominance in Singapore last weekend.

    http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/minardi-raises-vettel-traction-control-doubts/

     
  13. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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  14. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I guess it's possible, but this sounds like conspiracy theory nonsense. Traction control can be identified through audio analysis, and I'm sure another team would have raised an objection if this were going on. They spend almost as much time observing each other as they spend on their own efforts.
     
  15. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    I suppose Minardi's comments will spark people to check it out. Something is odd, it makes no sense he could pull away like that and lap that much faster than everyone else.
     
  16. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sure it does. He has a car advantage, and he's tuned in to the driving style necessary to pull the most from the car. His teammate is past it, unmotivated, and not in a position to make the most of the car because he's not in clean air. I don't think that Vettel is the best driver on the grid, but he's the best driver for the best car on the grid. Take yourself back to 1988 and imagine that Berger is in the second McLaren instead of Prost.
     
  17. Joffrey

    Joffrey Senior member

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    The standard ECUs they use now will go a long way in preventing the use of any form of traction control. James Allen has suggested a use of some amended engine mapping. Vettel's pace in Singapore was definitely helped by his being followed by Rosberg. I don't think he would've pulled away by that margin if Alonso or Raikkonen were behind him.
     
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  18. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  19. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    With the exception of Shumacher Vettel out front, not a bad race. idfnl, you have to be pleased with Alonso's result. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  20. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    Yes.

    Even thought I can't stand the asshole, he's right about this:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24419856

     

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