For your consideration: the fully-buttoned 3B (plenty of old-school suit pr0n).

[Bull]

While reading the Wall Street Journal this morning, I came across this pic of Harold Macmillan wearing a 3B coat with all buttons fastened. Now, I'm sure that you could Foof this picture to pieces and nit-pick every last thing this man is doing wrong, but if we want to be truthful for a moment, we would say that this man is killing it. He looks quite dashing and relaxed even, despite being literally "all buttoned-up." Thoughts? JFK is doing the same thing with his 2B, and isn't, in my opinion, looking half as good. More pics of Mr. Macmillan below. Obviously a man who got along famously with JFK.

 

[DocHolliday]

Here's another, of about the same era, all done up:

 

[mack11211]

JFK is wearing a paddock coat.

It's designed to be buttonned that way.

Will of ASW explains it here.

 

[DocHolliday]

I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced by this paddock coat business. The button position on the brown tweed on Will's blog looks the same as on some RTW I have from the era. Even the middle pic in Will's entry doesn't look that far out of the norm for the period.

There's something charming about the notion that because it's Kennedy, it must be bespoke and meant to be that way. That sort of faith in the aristocracy is how all the important style decisions used to get made.

 

[amplifiedheat]

Originally Posted by Bull

What we have here is distilled badassery.

 

[ramuman]

Am I the only one that doesn't see the JFK charm in dressing well? Sure his dad had connections. Sure he went to Harvard, was the POTUS, was charismatic and Jackie was sexy, but I never saw his appeal to the SF crowd compared to others of his generation.

 

[Bull]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced by this paddock coat business. The button position on the brown tweed in the color photo looks the same as on some RTW I have from the era. Even the middle pic in Will's entry doesn't look that far out of the norm for the period.

There's something charming about the notion that because it's Kennedy, it must be bespoke and meant to be that way. That sort of faith in the aristocracy is how all the important style decisions used to get made.

+1

I've stared at these pics good and long and there isn't a damn bit of discernible difference between a paddock and a 2B. Fully-buttoned, a 2B doesn't look right, no matter what name you give it.

On the other hand - strangely - the 3B works well on Mr. Macmillan. I can't explain it - I just know what looks right to me and this is it.

 

[Bull]

One more thing: I'm a big fan of a little "pull", but the pull on a paddock just looks gross. JFK's coat is pulling in like 7 different directions. Again, look at the 3B - I'm not saying it's pull-less, and Macmillan's pooch-belly is definitely making an appearance, but it still lies nice and flat against the gut, which JFK's does not do. This might be because JFK had such a thin build, but if all of his garments were bespoke, his tailor should have worked some magic and figured out how to fit this thing.

 

[SuitMyself]

Paddock: EPIC FAIL.

(Sorry.)

 

[Professor Chaos]

He looks terrible. You just have a chub for him because of his position. If you saw a poor man dressed the same way you would recognize how awful this looks.

 

[cptjeff]

It's not a paddock. It's not even close. It's a standard 2 button with all buttons buttoned as was the norm until one particurally rotund king tried to hide his gut by not closing the bottom button, and is still the norm in other parts of the world. Will of ASW has no idea what he's talking about there, but he said it and people took it as fact. Take a look at a different version of the photo he posted:

Who can spot the difference between the cut of Edward's and JFK's coats? It's not there. He's invented a difference in cut and button stance where absolutely none exists. All three of those suits are completely normal for the era- fairly boxy cut, narrow lapels perfectly normal button stance. (Looks like RFK's stance is actually a little lower, or the pockets are higher. Probably would have to talk to his tailor for the reasoning for that). I continue to be amazed at how many fail to grasp that normal suit jackets are usually made to be closed with all the buttons, which is only not done out of a convention born from respect for a fat king.

 

[AndrewRogers]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing about paddock coats with anyone here but let me say that in the picture directly above and the very first picture in this thread, the position of the lower button on the JFK coat is actually about an inch or so above the pockets. On Robert's and Edward's coat, the lower button aligns with the pockets as does the lowest button Macmillan's. There might be something in that difference or there might not, but there is a difference.

 

[amplifiedheat]

Originally Posted by cptjeff

I continue to be amazed at how many fail to grasp that normal suit jackets are usually made to be closed with all the buttons
Are we going to have to drag out the tailoring patterns, again, to show that the lowest buttonhole is placed further to the side, indicating that it is not meant to be buttoned?

 

[Wideknot]

Originally Posted by cptjeff

It's not a paddock. It's not even close. It's a standard 2 button with all buttons buttoned as was the norm until one particurally rotund king tried to hide his gut by not closing the bottom button, and is still the norm in other parts of the world.

Will of ASW has no idea what he's talking about there, but he said it and people took it as fact. Take a look at a different version of the photo he posted:

Who can spot the difference between the cut of Edward's and JFK's coats? It's not there. He's invented a difference in cut and button stance where absolutely none exists. All three of those suits are completely normal for the era- fairly boxy cut, narrow lapels perfectly normal button stance. (Looks like RFK's stance is actually a little lower, or the pockets are higher. Probably would have to talk to his tailor for the reasoning for that).

I continue to be amazed at how many fail to grasp that normal suit jackets are usually made to be closed with all the buttons, which is only not done out of a convention born from respect for a fat king.

I can. Whether or not there is a style of coat called a "paddock coat" or not is beyond me, but, in this pic, JFK's coat definitely has a different buttoning stance from his brother's. The gorge on JFK's jacket rises higher than his bros, both buttons sit a little higher with the natural waist falling between them, and the buttons align vertically. Close both buttons and the jacket will fall properly. On the other hand, his bros jackets have much deeper gorges with the top button much closer to the natural waist and the bottom button significantly below the natural waist. The buttons don't seem t align vertically either. Close both buttons on these jackets and they won't fall correctly.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by cptjeff

It's not a paddock. It's not even close. It's a standard 2 button with all buttons buttoned as was the norm until one particurally rotund king tried to hide his gut by not closing the bottom button, and is still the norm in other parts of the world.

Will of ASW has no idea what he's talking about there, but he said it and people took it as fact. Take a look at a different version of the photo he posted:

Who can spot the difference between the cut of Edward's and JFK's coats? It's not there. He's invented a difference in cut and button stance where absolutely none exists. All three of those suits are completely normal for the era- fairly boxy cut, narrow lapels perfectly normal button stance. (Looks like RFK's stance is actually a little lower, or the pockets are higher. Probably would have to talk to his tailor for the reasoning for that).

I continue to be amazed at how many fail to grasp that normal suit jackets are usually made to be closed with all the buttons, which is only not done out of a convention born from respect for a fat king.

This is not the most explosive ignorance bomb ever dropped into a StyleForvm thread.

I put it in the top 100, though. Well done, but add more saltpeter to you next attempt.


- B