For the love of d'Avenza

[othertravel]

Hello All,

I am not really sure how to go about this but will do myself to quietly announce something pretty amazing we are working on. Following on from the story revealed by @LuxGentleman, BrandArmour went bankrupt not long ago and in the most recent twist of events, the d'Avenza trademark was available once again.

As some of you might know, d'Avenza was effectively set up originally as a facility for Chester Barrie and Jonathan Clay's father became the first MD of the facility and brand we call d'Avenza. The rest, as they say, is history and following a spell where d'Avenza made some of the finest tailoring in the world, the brand lost its way of sorts having changed hands multiple times.

Well at the same time as all of this in the background, JC has been working over the years to set up his own tailoring facilities which supply some of the highest-end brands in the world with the handmade, Italian article. His facilities were built following the very same principles (many formed by his father) that made d'Avenza so coveted. I have shared a link to an interview Jonathan did with Permanent Style not long ago.

Recently, Jonathan acquired the rights to d'Avenza and d'Avenza Roma trademark once again with the intention to use his facility to revive the brand and restore it to it's former glory. Well, I am happy to announce that d'Avenza will be relaunching with Archibald over the coming weeks. The same d'Avenza... the original d'Avenza will be made available through our website as RTW made-to-order and priced through our disruptive pricing model.

Much more and formal announcements to come soon! I guess I wanted you to know first!

Is JC on the forum as well?

 

[ViatoremDiEfa]

This is fantastic news! I hope you guys could sell a suit for around the 2500 EUR range.

 

[othertravel]

This is fantastic news! I hope you guys could sell a suit for around the 2500 EUR range.

Starts at 3000 euros according to this article:

Il marchio d'eccellenza sartoriale nel mondo | Movida

movida.tgcom24.it

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

This is fantastic news! I hope you guys could sell a suit for around the 2500 EUR range.

Even better!

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

The article is no

Starts at 3000 euros according to this article:

Il marchio d'eccellenza sartoriale nel mondo | Movida

movida.tgcom24.it

The article isn't about the initiative WITH Archibald, was written in 2015 and is way before JC got the rights to the D'Avenza name.

 

[othertravel]

The article is no


The article isn't about the initiative WITH Archibald, was written in 2015 and is way before JC got the rights to the D'Avenza name.

Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. And very excited to see how this develops!

 

[sartoriale]

Hello All,

I am not really sure how to go about this but will do myself to quietly announce something pretty amazing we are working on. Following on from the story revealed by @LuxGentleman, BrandArmour went bankrupt not long ago and in the most recent twist of events, the d'Avenza trademark was available once again.

As some of you might know, d'Avenza was effectively set up originally as a facility for Chester Barrie and Jonathan Clay's father became the first MD of the facility and brand we call d'Avenza. The rest, as they say, is history and following a spell where d'Avenza made some of the finest tailoring in the world, the brand lost its way of sorts having changed hands multiple times.

Well at the same time as all of this in the background, JC has been working over the years to set up his own tailoring facilities which supply some of the highest-end brands in the world with the handmade, Italian article. His facilities were built following the very same principles (many formed by his father) that made d'Avenza so coveted. I have shared a link to an interview Jonathan did with Permanent Style not long ago.

Recently, Jonathan acquired the rights to d'Avenza and d'Avenza Roma trademark once again with the intention to use his facility to revive the brand and restore it to it's former glory. Well, I am happy to announce that d'Avenza will be relaunching with Archibald over the coming weeks. The same d'Avenza... the original d'Avenza will be made available through our website as RTW made-to-order and priced through our disruptive pricing model.

Much more and formal announcements to come soon! I guess I wanted you to know first!

That is great news!

Congratulations, and we wish you the best!

 

[LuxGentleman]

Hello All,

I am not really sure how to go about this but will do myself to quietly announce something pretty amazing we are working on. Following on from the story revealed by @LuxGentleman, BrandArmour went bankrupt not long ago and in the most recent twist of events, the d'Avenza trademark was available once again.

As some of you might know, d'Avenza was effectively set up originally as a facility for Chester Barrie and a man by the name of Clay became the first MD of the facility and brand we call d'Avenza. The rest, as they say, is history and following a spell where d'Avenza made some of the finest tailoring in the world, the brand lost its way of sorts having changed hands multiple times.

Well at the same time as all of this in the background, Clay's son - Jonathan Clay has been working for over 29 years to set up his own tailoring facilities which supply some of the highest-end brands in the world with the handmade, Italian article. His facilities were built and operated following the very same principles (many formed by his father) that made the original and true d'Avenza product so coveted. I have shared a link to an interview Jonathan did with Permanent Style not long ago.

Recently, Jonathan acquired the rights to d'Avenza and d'Avenza Roma trademark once again with the intention to use his facility to revive the brand and restore it to it's former glory. Well, I am happy to announce that d'Avenza will be relaunching with Archibald over the coming weeks. The same d'Avenza... the original d'Avenza will be made available through our website as RTW made-to-order and priced through our disruptive pricing model.

Much more and formal announcements to come soon! I guess I wanted you to know first!

Hearing this news fills my heart with joy, I can only be happy, good luck !!!
Alessandro

 

[LuxGentleman]

Here are the last pieces left in the world of the great craftsmanship of the tailoring Sartoria d'Avenza, cutting quality and construction make these products among the best in the world.

 

[ViatoremDiEfa]

The article is no


The article isn't about the initiative WITH Archibald, was written in 2015 and is way before JC got the rights to the D'Avenza name.

You need to be able to sell the brand to the minted crowds. I can notice that there has been a noticeable increase in well-dressed men in the streets of all the larger German cities I visited.

I would love to see D'avenza at Manufactum! That is the only high street warehouse I can think of, that sells quality products and not brands.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

You need to be able to sell the brand to the minted crowds. I can notice that there has been a noticeable increase in well-dressed men in the streets of all the larger German cities I visited.

I would love to see D'avenza at Manufactum! That is the only high street warehouse I can think of, that sells quality products and not brands.

The collection which will be branded as something along the lines of "D'avenza Roma for Archibald" will be available worldwide exclusively on our website www.archibaldlondon.com and pricing will follow our usual disruptive, direct-to-consumer model.

 

[thegreatgatsby]

I hate to be the pessimist here, and I love Jonathan Clay, but I think any attempt to re-launch (or to continue) d'Avenza is a fool's errand. William White, the head of Scarpe di Bianco, spent a lot of his time and money trying to introduce d'Avenza to the American market (while it was still being hand-made) back in the mid-2000s. He failed. D'Avenza is one of those brands that is (or was) the best in the world, but it had NO IDEA how to market itself. D'Avenza did succeed as a third-party maker (for House of Bijan, Gieves & Hawkes, and Hadleighs of Dallas), but it never (in over 50 years) made a name for itself. Kiton and Attolini have done swimmingly, but not d'Avenza. The closest analogy I can make is Oxxford. No one really knows about Oxxford - BUT - Oxxford has managed to adapt and survive. If d'Avenza couldn't really penetrate North America, the far East or Russia when it was at its best and most skilled (the best tailors and cutters in the world), then how can it make it today? The final nail in the coffin was when BrandAmour tried to resurrect d'Avenza. It had NO skilled craftsmen. The garments literally fell apart. The damage is done. Everyone still thinks that Brunello Cucinelli owns d'Avenza - and has that helped the company even one bit? No. It's helped Ebay resellers of dead-stock, but that's about it. If Marlon Brando's camel topcoat (by d'Avenza) from Last Tango in Paris didn't help the company at all, then what will? I would just say to all - enjoy the good stuff while you can: the deadstock, OG d'Avenza. You can buy those suits and jackets for as little as $300 - and there's plenty left out there. Why would we be excited about a new opportunity to get an above-average product for $2500 - $3500 when you can get a superior product for $300 - $700? I just don't get it. Yes, some of the dead-stock d'Avenza is a bit dated - with pleated pants (which are coming back I suppose), or longer jackets, or slightly wider lapels - but Tom Ford favors wider lapels, and Attolini doesn't shy away from a 30" jacket, so, again, not sure what the problem is. If I didn't already have a fully stocked wardrobe, I would be buying up the dead-stock d'Avenza - cut by Ralph A (the master cutter to end all master cutters). I would be buying - all day long - old school d'Avenza from topshelfapparel, nyMilan, Sartoriale, and ilcravattaiomatto (among others).

I think about Yoox - and how people pay $800 + to get a half-way-dec sport coat or blazer, and I just don't get it.

You're not getting a fully handmade, RTW garment on Yoox for $800. Why wouldn't more people just buy up these great d'Avenza pieces? I used to wear Brioni, but the fit just wasn't right for me. D'Avenza will fit anyone. You may need your tailor to slim the pants and the sleeves, but so what? You're getting bespoke-level stuff here. It's crazy...

So - it's great (in theory) that Clay has bought the trademarks and wants to keep d'Avenza alive (I owned the davenza.com domain for a while, which I sold to BrandAmour) - but I think that Clay is the only one.

I don't see d'Avenza succeeding in North America or Italy given the multiple bankruptcies associated with the brand (including 2019). It's scorched Earth. What retailers are willing to be burned, yet again, by d'Avenza? Where is the good-will and brand equity? I would submit that it doesn't have any left to offer the world of retailers and consumers.

What does the brand even mean to people - outside of Russia, for instance?

I know that Russian oligarchs love d'Avenza for the Italian heritage (which is doesn't have anymore), and for the vicuna offerings from the brand (this last-go-around). But where does a brand like d'Avenza (never a household name, never known outside of Italy or Russia) go from here? And why? If at first you don't succeed, try, like, another twenty times?

And this is coming from the guy who started this thread some time ago...

 

[ViatoremDiEfa]

I would love to see a batch of these Polo Overcoats made. I have never ever seen anything like them as a ready to wear item.

 

[sartoriale]

I would love to see a batch of these Polo Overcoats made. I have never ever seen anything like them as a ready to wear item.

Here you are get it while you can;-) https://www.sartoriale.com/search?q=polo+coat&_=pf&pf_v_designer=D'AVENZA

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

I hate to be the pessimist here, and I love Jonathan Clay, but I think any attempt to re-launch (or to continue) d'Avenza is a fool's errand. William White, the head of Scarpe di Bianco, spent a lot of his time and money trying to introduce d'Avenza to the American market (while it was still being hand-made) back in the mid-2000s. He failed. D'Avenza is one of those brands that is (or was) the best in the world, but it had NO IDEA how to market itself. D'Avenza did succeed as a third-party maker (for House of Bijan, Gieves & Hawkes, and Hadleighs of Dallas), but it never (in over 50 years) made a name for itself. Kiton and Attolini have done swimmingly, but not d'Avenza. The closest analogy I can make is Oxxford. No one really knows about Oxxford - BUT - Oxxford has managed to adapt and survive. If d'Avenza couldn't really penetrate North America, the far East or Russia when it was at its best and most skilled (the best tailors and cutters in the world), then how can it make it today? The final nail in the coffin was when BrandAmour tried to resurrect d'Avenza. It had NO skilled craftsmen. The garments literally fell apart. The damage is done. Everyone still thinks that Brunello Cucinelli owns d'Avenza - and has that helped the company even one bit? No. It's helped Ebay resllers of deadstock, but that' about it. If Marlon Brando's camel topcoat (by d'Avenza) from Last Tango in Paris didn't help the company at all, then what will? I would just say to all - enjoy the good stuff while you can: the deadstock, OG d'Avenza. You can buy those suits and jackets for as little as $300 - and there's plenty left out there. Why would we be excited about a new opportunity to get an above-average product for $2500 - $3500 when you can get a superior product for $300 - $700? I just don't get it. Yes, some of the deadstock d'Avenza is a bit dated - with pleated pants (which are coming back I suppose), or longer jackets, or slightly wider lapels - but Tom Ford favors wider lapels, and Attolini doesn't shy away from a 30" jacket, so, again, not sure what the problem is. If I didn't already have a fully stocked wardrobe, I would be buying up the deadstock d'Avenza - cut by Ralph A (the master cutter to end all master cutters). I would be buying - all day long - old school d'Avenza from topshelfapparel, nyMilan, Sartoriale, and ilcravattaiomatto (among others).

I think about Yoox - and how people pay $800 + to get a half-way-dec sport coat or blazer, and I just don't get it.

You're not getting a fully handmade, RTW garment on Yoox for $800. Why wouldn't more people just buy up these great d'Avenza pieces? I used to wear Brioni, but the fit just wasn't right for me. D'Avenza will fit anyone. You may need your tailor to slim the pants and the sleeves, but so what? You're getting bespoke-level stuff here. It's crazy...

So - it's great that Clay has bought the trademarks and wants to keep d'Avenza alive (I owned the davenza.com domain for a while, which I sold to BrandAmour) - but I think that Clay is the only one.

I don't see d'Avenza succeeding in North America or Italy given the multiple bankruptcies associated with the brand (including 2019). It's scorched Earth. What retailers are willing to be burned, yet again, by d'Avenza?

What does the brand even mean to people - outside of Russia, for instance?

I know that Russian oligarchs love d'Avenza for the Italian heritage (which is doesn't have anymore), and for the vicuna offerings from the brand (this last-go-around). But where does a brand like d'Avenza (never a household name, never known outside of Italy or Russia) go from here? And why? If at first you don't succeed, try, like, another twenty times?

@thegreatgatsby this is such a wonderful post and filled with so much truth. I will begin by stating a very matter of factly that I am an absolute newcomer to this world. I mean very frankly, I barely know anything about the names you are mentioning and only very recently got my hands on an OG D'Avenza piece and picked it apart with one of the most experienced head cutters on Savile Row so that we ourselves understand what we are trying to deliver a little more.

We have been fortunate enough over the past 5 years as I have gone through this journey of trying to establish a brand that re-thinks how consumers can access the very best of products, quality, and craftsmanship to have met and gained the support of many let's call them advising angels, not in the investment sense but there to ensure we really are making good on our promise on value. Some of which had the exact same problem you describe d'Avenza having and see our little concept as a way of changing the commercial approach brands have to take. The way we see it, one misstep, one bad product category and we risk killing the dream of Archibald and potentially throw our entire idea into jeopardy.

So here is what I know (/learning), it costs about 650 Euros for a masterfully tailored, totally handmade Italian suit not including the cloth. If you want to go for a partly machine-made piece in Italy a la Brioni etc, you are looking at 400 Euros but the difference is obvious once that goes on. By the time you go for something beautiful from Scabal, Loro Piana etc.. let's price it up.

A Loro Piana Cashmere with the textile cashmere coming in at between 100 - 130 Euros/m and you typically need 3m for a complete suit. So that is let's say 350 Euros for 3m. So all in, you are looking at ~1000 Euros production for a cashmere suit totally handmade in Italy by master tailors. Now by the time you consider packaging, freight etc... let's say 1125 Euros.
If we assume duty rates to the USA at about 16% (60.3 cents/kg + 15.6%) we come off landed at 1305 Euros...around 1475 USD... Push this through our pricing mechanism and we can achieve something in the region of 2400 USD for a Cashmere, hand-made suit (MTO, RTW or HM2M). Go with wool and it's even less, duties included. The best comparison, we found something from Cucinelli for about $6500 USD.

So if you are talking about a suit made of great wool, we can achieve something in the region of 1850 USD.

Now we haven't decided how we are going to introduce the category, how we are going to market it etc..but our game is far far different to any conventional retailer. The plan was to do this for our own suiting line, but who are we... and that would perhaps yield similar results but JC has spent many years it seems re-establishing a work-flow with craftsmen to create fine suits much in the same way his father, Tony, did when the brand was started.

d'Avenza has an incredible story of rise and fall associated to it - the original luxury Italian suit... when confronted with the chance of reviving this story and powering the commercial side through our business model it felt like a no-brainer. And the strategy is quite simple... we begin by getting those who really know on our side. So that is you and this incredible community, that is why the launch will include a special just for all of you...Each product tested by a team we employ on Savile Row prior to delivery, we slowly let the world know that the true d'avenza is back and only available by this odd little online outfit that is completely changing the game when it comes to the finest Italian suits... and every suit we sell will do the talking for us.

The difference I guess is we don't have to play the marketing and commercial game like everyone else did back in the day.
It was indeed incredibly difficult but that isn't our approach. There are no retailers involved here and the game is to tell the story and deliver something different. We want to deliver great product at great prices and ensure with every single one we are upholding our promise of incredible value. Every single piece delivered will serve as a love letter to Tony Clay's original d'Avenza and a signal that we are effectively laying down the gauntlet in a new category.

I guess that is what excites me about this stuff... normally it's just us some random brand partnering up with a master craftsmen to offer high luxury at an incredible value... but now we have a real story, a rise and fall story that means we can go to those who really know and get our validation, rubber stamp and then further tell this once-forgotten story with a new angle. Those master tailors in Italy that used to make those great suits... they are back, and they just went digital.


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