Five jeans for your consideration.

[sygyzy]

Great list as always. I would suggest adding a short sentence to each description about fit (size up, down, stretch, etc). Since you already typed up a nice paragraph, I don't think this would be too much extra!

 

[tljenkin]

I agree with mikesduc (whose one-on-one service actually bests the great AW). LA Guy will probably mention the natural indigo, rope dying and Zimbabwean cotton. Also, the hardware like the donut fly is a nice touch. I have never seen the 103's look bad on anyone. Ever. Hell, they were 2-3 inches too small for me and I got a ton of compliments on the fit. To me, that's the strongest endoresment a pair of jeans can get. Also, the back pocket stitching is arguably the best of all time.

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by mikesduc

Alllllrighty then. Talkin' down on the SDA's and we got a problem here.

Seriuosly, I am no expert but when I wear and/or inspect my SDA's (1293,103,105,1002) I can't see how anything could be better. Could you explain the rationale behind your thoughts on SDA vs KMW. I'm truly curious.

Well, I love my SDAs too, the x05's and 1002 fit me particularly well, but they some construction and design problems

1) The denim is woven very loosely. Now, there is no problem with this in and of itself. However, combined with the rather long fly, the wide spacing between buttons, the relatively slimness of the top block, and you have a bit of a problem. After extended wearing, the buttons pull, and the it becomes increasingly difficult to keep the fly closed. If it does (on a tighter pair), the fly starts to pull, and it looks like your fly might suddenly pop open to let your junk spill out. On the other hand, the KMW 1980 has a contoured waistband, and a lower front rise, so that the front fly requires only 3 buttons, eliminating this problem while keeping the fit not disimilar to the 103s.

2) The stitching and finishing on the KMW is just much neater. The interior finishing on the interior of a pair of KMWs is impeccable, which shows attention to detail. My SDAs are not nearly as neatly finished, In fact, I've found a fair number of inconsistencies in the workmanship of SDAs that can only be attributed to carelessness on the part of the maker, so my very small survey indicates that the QC of SDAs is lower.

3) Edit, whoops, forgot, but the trims on the KMWs (rivets, buttons) are higher grade than the hardware used by SDA.

 

[LA Guy]

I would be remiss if I didn't add that I really like some of the Japanese brands. I was on Ironheart way before Self Edge ever opened and people started talking about it (you can check one of my old top 10 lists), and SDA is actually one of my favorites. I also love the Full Count line, clothes as well as jeans.

However, I would say that some American companies (Kicking Mule Workshop being the latest, but imo, 5EP being the greatest) combine the best of the new and old.

 

[Bona Drag]

Originally Posted by Brian SD

They'll be in the full list.
Wait, is this going to be the Fok/Brian mash-up uber list? Awesum!!!!!!!!11!!11! Also, tj, I thought your last line sort of blew it:

Originally Posted by tljenkin

I would still rather have a pair of repros because I think that the original 5 pocket Levi-Strauss design is the best
This is the only real criticism you make, but it's a highly personal, and I don't think would be the case for many people. I went on a rant about this a while back - how I thought classic cuts were superior b/c of tradition, etc. - and then after further consideration, and a glance in my closet, I realized I was full of sh**. I ate crow once, but I'll do it again. Anyway, with notable exceptions - i.e. cheap, etc. - the original 501 silhouette is just not as flattering on many (most?) people as a number of more "modern" cuts, i.e. NS, 1980. Anway, nice list, Fok; as one of the Nudie stitching bashers, I'll just reiterate that I fully agree their cuts are pretty damn sweet, and their denim fades beautifully. The only quibble I'd make is that I personally hate the fit of the RB6. Just me, tho, and their denim is undeniably fantastic. I like that you focused on jeans that weren't uber-exclusive... Oh, and Godmother, if you're reading - please, for the love of Strauss, can you consider doing a 36 inseam someday? I'll

you forever if you do...

 

[tljenkin]

When I say "5 pocket L-S," I'm talking about aestetic touches like the back pocket stitching/size, 5 belt loops, button fly and copper rivets. I'm also a big fan of 100% natural cotton denim. Also, the shape of the pockets should stay fairly consistant (as in, not like Corpus). I am also fond of the 501 style cuts, but that does not have to be a rule. Just for the record, I do prefer the look of a repro to all of APC's cuts, but some 'repros' are so modern that it's hard to call them repros. The 103's for instance.

I second the 5 Ep 36" inseam thing wholeheartedly. Please give it to us.

 

[Bona Drag]

Originally Posted by tljenkin

some 'repros' are so modern that it's hard to call them repros. The 103's for instance.

Good point.

 

[chronoaug]

As much as i desperately want some samurai 500s or maybe the 710s, i don't see that many of them looking good on people on sufu. DDML, cheap are the first two that come to mind whose fits look fantastic in them. A good amount of people just aren't very flattered by the fit(specifically the s5000s and a person or two in 710s). I don't believe it's because their fits are bad and i'd probably attribute it to a few things.

-People getting an incorrect size for them. Skinny legged people getting the 5000s in their true waist and drowning in them(maybe some aren't soaking them to size first for some reason).
-The higher waist than on more modern jeans and slouching them too low for the high rise.
-People not hemming them and having jeans 4-6 inches too long for them

I think a lot of the problems people have with fits is their error. Whether sizing, not buying the right type of jean for their body type and hemming. I don't know why people are so against hemming their jeans. I can't remember how many poor looking APCs, samurais, flat heads and other long inseam only jeans have their look ruined because someone thinks they can "stack" them. Diors seem to be the only jeans i've seen consistantly let people get away with stacking regardless of their size(most of the time).

There are a few japanese jeans who would probably crack a list of top 20 jeans. The PBJ005s really are a great fit. They let you wear a slim, almost skinny jean, without looking them look too tight. They work well with my really simple florida weather wardrobe for walking around campus, and the more adventurous, sophisticated looks of sauce and braid. I think if i went a half size up instead of half size down, they'd be a bit more comfy but they're fine. I'll find a similar fitting jean with a half inch more rise and nice textured denim eventually.

Novelty definitely influenced my purchase of the PBJs. I was going to take the easy route for moving into expensive raw denim(rigid 514s worked well for starters) with apcs but after trying on stuff and talking to the guys at BiG over winter break, i had to get a pair of japanese ones. People don't want to admit it but hell yea it's cool knowing that your jeans are so exclusive you pretty much have to get them from japan or 2 stores in the western hemisphere. I read somewhere that the PBJs are hank dyed(figured they'd be more expensive because of it, but i don't know) and are unique looking. Hell, i'm probably the only guy in Florida who wore PBJs and army sneakers ordered from germany the other day. Is it immature and elitist, sure, but everyone's kidding themselves if they say they don't care about that kinda stuff. Exclusivity certainly is nice, which i understand is an important aspect of the japanese denim craze.

I haven't tried on the kmws, r&b or 5eps yet, but from reading about them(seams falling on the calfs, better material for stitching, the fact that apcs are able to stretch 53 sizes and not tear, etc...) i would agree in principle that they are probably superior jeans. I wish there was a denimbar like store in new york with the non-BiG brands in one place. When i'm up there this summer i'm going to get a pair of jeans, but all these modern company jeans are starting to seem really good.

 

[LA Guy]

About stacking, it can look pretty interesting, and it can look pretty bad. From what I've seen, stacking doesn't actually look very good on tight jeans. Fitted, yes, but not tight. If you look at the Dior models showing stacking, there are two things that seem to stand out consistently.

1. The jeans are not actually that tight. In fact, a lot of the jeans are slim through the leg, but actually hang off the model's hips.
2. The models are really skinny.

Now, not everyone looks like a Dior model, which is a good thing. However, if you aren't Dior model skinny, but you buy the same size as they are wearing, they are going to be skin tight. So, instead of having jeans that are slim, that sort of hang, then puddle around the ankles naturally, you end up with jeans that are skin tight until mid calf, when suddenly, the jeans turn into the denim equivalent of leg warmers. Doesn't sound like a good look? It's not.

The other thing is that this stacked look looks good with modern jeans that have a relatively low rise and a slim top block. Most Samurai's, etc... are not like this, and aren't meant to be worn this way. So, as Chronoaug pointed out, they look rather bad when worn low (and by low, I mean anywhere more than an inch below the navel.) Now, there are jeans that have a modern cut - PBJ 005s, JohnBull Sewing Chops 007 and 008s, Somet straights and skinnies, that meet this criterion. However, the majority of these jeans are being worn poorly by people on these fora. Look on most of the Rakuten sites with live models. By and large, the "repro" jeans are worn rather high and a little loose, workman style. Trying to get them to looks different usually doesn't work particularly well. I really like a number of these brands, but really, they look best worn with clothes with an Americana feel, like Engineered Garments or The Flat Head, not N(N).

 

[Brian SD]

LA Guy hit the nail on the head I think. It's difficult to wear classic workwear style jeans in a 'modernized' way. Best to get a modern style brand.

 

[chronoaug]

I think that's why cheap and digital denim are 2 of the best samurai wearers on the fora(i'm glad la guy used it so i can quit saying forums). Nothing about their clothes is super modern. They work the classic with a twist angle really well which is what sammies are about. There is no way that Chris, diamonds, crillz and cheap/digital denim could switch jeans and not look awkward with their wardrobes.

With the diors. Yea, some people have gone a bit too far with them as far as tightness and stacking. Size 36-38 inseams are really excessive for people with natural 30inseams. I tried on sammies(which aren't really meant to stack like those) and they weren't that bad because i'm probably about a 33" true inseam. I don't understand how some people are wearing diors and sams who are under 6ft. Some people on sufu(almost no people here with diors) who sized their diors correctly and are wearing them with an appropriate inseam/height ratio look fantastic in them. I threw the dior comment in also because they seemed to be a bit like the PBJs when sized correctly in that you get a slim, sorta skinny jean, without really looking like you're wearing skinny jeans, if that makes sense.

 

[PG2G]

I think a lot of the reason for the less than perfect fitting of the Japanese jeans also comes down to the fact, until recently, they weren't available anywhere you could try on and/or return. People have pretty much been buying blind So people are ending up with wrong waists, tight ass thighs, short inseams, etc...

 

[tljenkin]

That is a really excellent point.

 

[thisisme]

a lot of people wear their diors/pbjs very "hugging" tight, don't know if its sufu style or intentional but imo not a good look for many.

also, would eternal 811's be considered modern cut? or "repro"

 

[Brian SD]

Diors & PBJs are two different beasts. Diors are meant to stack, have a low rise with an anti-fit top block. The closest resemblence to Japanese jeans is definitely Somet. They're not that tight at all when sized correctly (like LA Guy said - they're meant to hang off the hips and that's when they look best). They're a really nice, fitted, tapered jean that's very flattering when worn correctly.

PBJs XX-005s are basically an adaptation of a slim straight leg, because the audience that used to be buying slim bootcuts are not into the larger leg openings anymore. It's more about the fabric and the details with PBJ. They're equally special, just a different appeal.