First time wearing leather sole dress shoes... am I doing something wrong?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by chikkymonkey, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. FLMountainMan

    FLMountainMan White Hispanic

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    I've never for the life of me understood this forum's insistence on retaining the leather sole. Putting a rubber sole on it will extend the life of the shoe and make it less vulnerable to the elements, with minimal aesthetic sacrifice. It's 2011, why the hell would you want to walk around in leather-soled shoes like some goddamned neanderthal?
     


  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Well, leather breathes. Leather conforms to the shape of your foot. Leather is better for the shoe and better for the environment.

    Rubber will distort the shape of the shoe over time ...esp if it is GY. Rubber holds moisture in and against the foot...promoting fungus and accelerating the breakdown of other parts of the shoe. Rubber is petro-chemically derived and is massively toxic to the environment both in the manufacture and the abrasion of particulate matter into the environment.

    Why wear leather shoes at all...like some goddamned civilized and sentient being?
     


  3. Son Of Saphir

    Son Of Saphir Senior member

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    Rubber pad good for goodyear construction,
    it save machine operator from mashing welt and need to replace it after 3 or 4 resole.
    Replace a welt take much skill and most man not do this.
    lf midsole is damage it is big problem if not resole on original last,
    the shape and fit will change.

    Rubber pad good for fair stitch construction,
    it save machine operator from mashing insole and mid sole.
    Machine operator not use blake machine in original holes and he eventually mash insole after many resole because he need to replace midsole one day after some resole.
    Machine operator eventualy mash midsole on outside edge and need to replace,
    but with no original last to slip in the shoe lose shape and not fit same,
    fit will change.

    Rubber pad good for blake construction,
    it save machine operator from mashing insole.

    Rubber pad stop all above problem.
    Only time rubber pad not needed is with hand welt construction with hand carve feather or with true norvegese or bentivegna construction.
    Fully hand made inseam is exception,
    integrity of construction not made worse over time.
    That why hand made shoe always best.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  4. Son Of Saphir

    Son Of Saphir Senior member

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    true?
    you explain it better?

    it make sense.
    it true?
     


  5. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Rubber outsoles tend to get larger during wear. We all generate a certain amount of friction when walking which produces heat. Heat combined with industrial solvents, acid rain, ultra-violet, etc. cause the outsole to spread a little.

    Combine that with the fact that a rubber sole will hold heat and moisture in a shoe, and components, such as the glue that holds the gemming in place, begin to fail. When the gemming slips, the insole floats. At that point, there is nothing except the size and shape of the rubber outsole to maintain the shape and size of the shoe. If the outsole spreads, even a little, it will exert pressure causing the upper to spread. Walking a pair of shoes out of shape, or over to one side or the other, is common in such circumstances.


    True?! I don't believe in making off-the-cuff remarks...esp. about shoemaking...that I have no experience or evidence to substantiate.

    Beyond that, all you have to do is think about it. Mindfulness, logic--I'm a big fan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  6. Reevolving

    Reevolving Senior member

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    LOL, as if you're going to save the planet by boycotting a slice of thin rubber.
    while you consume 50,000x more rubber in other aspects of your life.
    Almost a delirious point, as just your car has more rubber than 50,000 pairs of topys.

    People discount the rubber soles b/c they want the "clip/clop" feeling of being special,
    and pretending they are from the halcyon days of gaslight in the 19th century, as in Midnight in Paris.
     


  7. Son Of Saphir

    Son Of Saphir Senior member

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    The post,
    it very very good. :slayer:
    It make lot of sense.
     


  8. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    There's an old saying..."The unexamined life is not worth living." (or something like that)

    I suspect there is a corollary that applies to SF and everyone posting to it...."Unexamined consumerism is not worth the spending."

    I can't save the planet by doing anything. All I can do that is meaningful, rational, and logical is to tend my own plot mindfully and share my observations and experience with others who are interested.

    Beyond that, you do what you can. Yes, we consume rubber at a pernicious rate in all aspect of our lives. Plastic too. But just because there are n parts of mercury in everyday drinking water doesn't make more acceptable, especially if you, personally...as a supposedly responsible individual...are the one controlling how much more is being added.

    The fact is that the rubber sole industry sprang forth fully formed from the tire industry...they are fundamentally one and the same.

    I think the bigger question is...if rubber soles are OK, what's preventing you from buying and wearing entirely plastic shoes? Every argument that can be made to justify rubber soles can near enough be made to justify plastic shoes. Nevermind that the shoemaking industry, as a whole, has already bought into that very mind-set.

    Why wear leather uppers like a "goddamed neanderthal" when plastic is cheaper, lasts longer and doesn't pollute the environment all that much more than it's already being polluted? [parenthetically, recent research indicates that Homo Neanderthalensis was more intelligent than common mythology holds, and certainly more mindful than most of contemporary society.]

    You need to see a better shoemaker (or an orthopedist) because there is no more "clip/clop" with leather soles than there is with rubber...unless the shoes don't fit or the wearer is walking like a farm hand.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  9. FLMountainMan

    FLMountainMan White Hispanic

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    The environmental argument for the leather sole is nonsense. That's like advocating for handkerchiefs instead of tissue paper. Besides, you know how much shit tanneries pump into the air and water? How much co2 cows pump out?

    Your argument for it being harder on the shoe is more compelling. However, I walk to work and don't want to worry about what puddle I may step on, or if a grassy hill I walk down is going to slip out from underneath me.

    And for what it's worth, I use "Neanderthal" as an indication of how primitive leather soles are, not as some indictment of Neanderthal intelligence. Being of Northern European descent, I likely have some Neanderthal DNA in me, and I appreciate your advocacy on their behalf. :foo:
     


  10. Patek

    Patek Senior member

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    I have mainly leather soled shoes but I do own some boots with rubber oversoles. I like the way the leather wears based on he pressure of my feet. My oldest shoes are then my most comfortable. I cannot say the same about the ones with the rubber oversoles.

    I do love the environment and I work in green energy. However, that would never be my reason for not buying rubber. After all, I own three vehicles one of which is an SUV which I use for towing my race car which goes through a set of tires in a weekend.
     


  11. cioni2k

    cioni2k Senior member

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    What's wrong with that? If I'm wearing a nicer pair of shoes than the vast majority of the population and I care that much about my appearance why shouldn't I feel special about my leather-soled shoes?
     


  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Really? Quality leather outsoles are vegetable tanned...some form of bark--oak, chestnut, sumac, quebacho. How does that kind of run-off compare to the by-products and run-off/smoke stacks of the petroleum industry?

    We've had literally thousands of years tanning leather with little or no deleterious effects...but it didn't take Dow Chemical much more than a decade to destroy a large portion of the shrimp fishery in the Gulf.

    Beyond that, the "environmental argument" is not the defining argument It is simply a salient factor to consider...for those who indulge in "considering."

    I don't "for the life of me" understand this argument. I've worn little else but leather outsoles for over forty years...on snow, Ice, and grassy knolls. I don't have the problems with slipping that you cite. Beyond that, I watch where I walk...a serendipitous off-shoot of mindfullness...and don't try to wade the Battenkill in leather dress shoes.


    It's a spurious argument at best. Using wood for shelter is as primitive or moreso.

    And, to my mind, it's just sophistry to suggest that raw materials or techniques are to be implemented or discarded based on their historical antecedents or provenance. The word "primitive" doesn't apply to leather anymore than it applies to wood or wool. It simply is what it is--a product that has evolved, been refined, and found acceptance, even primacy, in human societies over centuries of experimentation with other materials.

    Why wear wool like a "goddamned neanderthal" when PVC is available?

    FWIW, I doubt you're unique in your ancestry...I'm Scots, and German, myownself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  13. Son Of Saphir

    Son Of Saphir Senior member

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    Yes,
    new science show that livestock raising is main factor for Co2 for global warming,
    up to 80%,
    it worse than car pollution.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  14. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I'd like to see some documentation on that...including all the peripheral industries that service or are dependent on the petroleum industry.

    For instance, we can talk about rubber outsoles... but no one thinks about the chemicals that are associated with using rubber outsoles. Let's document how many metric tons of just tolulene are generated, used, and released into the environment, for the express purpose cementing Topy to the bottom of a perfectly good outsole. Or benzene, or MEK.

    I've breathed it all my career (trying to reduce or get away from it now in later life)...I'm not a better person for it.

    And FWIW, forests are one of, if not the "main factor", for reducing CO2. And have been time out of mind...even when the Bison herds in NA, all by themselves, were equivalent to the livestock industry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011


  15. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Senior member

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    Im afraid you are comparing apples to oranges here. You are arguing on behalf of quality footwear which along side handmade garments i completely agree with you that they are less harmful to the environment. However with you average mass produced good its a different story.
     


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