1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

First proper watch

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by MGLL, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Profacio

    Profacio Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    68
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Nice post A. And while I don't have as strong distaste for Grand Seikos as you, I do agree that for the most part, a certain sect of individuals buy them and decree their value quite loudly.

    Interesting catch on the constellation, and something I wonder about often on here. I've seen a few frankens and reps on the Watch Appreciation thread but have noticed that no one ever says anything..I'd like to think out of courtesy. But something wonder if the owners themselves even know.

    Cheers.
     
  2. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

    Messages:
    8,333
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Location:
    Oakville, Ontario, CANADA
    "Certain sect?" Do you mean by that phrase people who own one or have at least seen one in person? How is that different than owners or individuals with hands-on experience expressing an opinion on the product of any other brand? Can you not at least allow for the possibility that those who purchased Grand Seiko watches are singing their praises because were actually very impressed by the product - even if you are (presumably) less impresed? Again, please explain how this is any different from, say, owners of JLC watches loudly praising their purchases (which they most certainly do)?

    I can tell you what I have seen when it comes to the Grand Seiko line. Praise from owners, yes, in abundance. But also a lot of hating from elitist snobs (most of whom have never seen or held a GS) who think anything Japanese - but particularly Japanese watches - is by definition cheap and second rate. An ignorant view to be sure, but ignorance lies at the heart of most hating.

    As for vintage pieces, not everyone would prefer a moldy, oxidized original dial to a clean re-dial, and as long as the seller discloses, the buyer is aware and the price reflects that fact, I don't see a problem with it at all. A site like WUS provides ample opportunity for a newbie to ask questions about a prospective vintage purchase and get input from many expert sources. It's not nearly the ominous minefield of near certain disaster that some make it out to be. But as the OP does not appear to be seeking a vintage piece, it is perhaps beside the fact here. And yes, I know that the dial the Connie is a re-dial, just as I know that the dial on the Yacht Club is original.
     
  3. MGLL

    MGLL Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Wow, some of you have been really helpful! Funnily enough I have just got back from a few AD's to check out several of the watches listed. I tried on multiple Ingenieurs, Portuguese automatic, (even a cheeky big pilot which I fell in love with), the Aqua Terra, Explorer, and a couple others! I have been constantly browsing the watch appreciation thread here, infact I am exactly 730 pages into it without having skipped a single one. I have also been on chrono24, timezone, and watchuseek every day researching the watches I am interested in.
    Just to clear this up, whilst I appreciate the GS, it would not be something I am interested in at this point in time.

    I am not looking for a watch to "impress watch snobs" I am looking for a watch that I will enjoy and that will take my collection to the next level. A quality swiss automatic, on a bracelet, that I will not necessarily wear every day, but will see a lot of wrist time. I am fascinated by watches and having spent Xmas in HK drooling over the various boutiques, will certainly be collecting watches for the forseeable future.

    I didn't actually find much connection with the Aqua Terra, it is beautiful but strangely I found it better looking in pictures.
    The Explorer, once again, is not a watch that I am particularly interested in. If I were to own a Rolex, which I have every intention of doing so in the future, I would like to own a Sea dweller or a Daytona.
    I am not interested in vintage watches at this point in time. The IWC Inge I am considering was dis-continued in either 08/09 (cant remember of the top of my head) and that hardly classifies it as vintage.
    When I stated I wanted something a little bit unique, I was referring to amongst the general population, not WIS. For example, several of my friends own Brietlings, Rolex Submariners, Tag's etc. True, they were generally all graduation gifts and they had no choice in the matter, but I am purchasing this watch for myself, and as a person with interest in watches and a budget that I feel to be perfectly respectable for my age, I wanted something a little different. I may be wrong but I would not imagine there to be too many 24 year old's in London who can proudly say they wear the Ingenieur 322701, a watch with an in house movement, strong links to Genta's original design, stunning dial and finishing, with a great bracelet and great history, specifically sourced as the start of a great collection. That is what I meant by something a little bit unique or different. Not "oh he wants something unique but he cant afford a Lange 1, no point in owning a watch until you can...." I, just like all of you have a list of grail watches that I would love to fulfill and yes, many are produced by PP, VC, ALS etc but right now that is not a realistic possibility, so rather than berate me for not spending £15,000 on a watch, it would be far more appreciated that, like so many of you have, I am provided with constructive feedback.

    I really really liked the Big Pilot (Why did I have to try it on [​IMG])
     
  4. Cant kill da Rooster

    Cant kill da Rooster Senior member

    Messages:
    1,872
    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Location:
    Canada
    

    You should definitely say something.
     
  5. MGLL

    MGLL Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Also, I apologise for the late responses. I am new to this site and as a result all my posts need to be moderated before they are allowed [​IMG]
     
  6. Apollotrader

    Apollotrader Senior member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Location:
    Paradise Valley, AZ
    Grand Seikos are watches internet nerds who never actually purchase them work themselves up into a frenzy over - such good value they coo, but somehow no one actually puts their money where their mouth is and buys one. I find them soulless with insipid designs, and the logo design alone is dreadful enough that I would avoid the whole marque because of it.

    Go to kitchen, get step stool, reach high above the fridge and grab balls, re-attach and purchase real watch.
     
  7. jt10000

    jt10000 Senior member

    Messages:
    230
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    What is a $10K watch without a mechanical movement? Do you mean a quartz movement or something else?
     
  8. dddrees

    dddrees Senior member

    Messages:
    9,161
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    1. I could give you my preferences but they may not fit you or your lifestyle.

    2. I would highly recommend getting a mechanical watch and not a quartz watch.

    3. Watches tend to be personal and many people have different likes, dislikes and opinions. For the price your paying I would highly recommend taking sometime and make sure you have done some research to ensure your getting something you'll be happy with not only now, but potentially 20 years or even 40 years from now.

    4. Do yourself a favor and check the cost of servicing (Even quartz watches require servicing.) , and resale value just in case you change your mind later. Some watches do tend to resale at a lesser value later. Some of these also can be had at greater discount up front as well. Do the math, just in case. Invest sometime and get a keeper and these things won't matter as much.

    5. Check to see if the movement was made in house or not. This matters to some and some do not. JLC in house by the way.

    6. Rolex, IWC, JLC, and Omega sell some pretty nice options at or around this price point. For a bit more you could even get an AP. Get the one that sings to you. If I gave you my choice at this price point I would get some that would agree and some who would disagree with me.

    7. Your current option by the way is a great choice, that is if that's the one you like the most.
     
  9. Gauss17

    Gauss17 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,297
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    

    I am inclined to tell you to get the 3227-01, because it seems like you really like it best, but are concerned what others think.

    That said, if you really do like the RO, I can actually think of no better time to get it than as your first "real" watch. Your first real watch will always be special and the one you are most likely to keep indefinitely. If you have to, wait awhile until you can justify it. It helps you in several ways:

    1. The RO is an excellent piece from "the big three"

    2. If you still really like it after waiting that amount of time, you will know you did the right thing.

    I do not own an aqua terra, so I cannot help you there. Personally, I would without question take an IWC over it though.
     
  10. ter1413

    ter1413 Senior member

    Messages:
    18,044
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    Location:
    Central Booking
  11. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,155
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    

    ^^ This is good advice and to add onto the whole whether the movement should be in house or not keep in mind that all of the big three (Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Audemars Piguet) have at some point and some models still do (maybe not patek anymore) use JLC movements. I would also suggest looking at the Reverso range in stainless steel from JLC at that price point
     
  12. dddrees

    dddrees Senior member

    Messages:
    9,161
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Not sure about the others, but Patek no longer does.
     
  13. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,155
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    

    Recently Patek is all in house now if I'm not mistaken they even use the "Patek seal" instead of the Geneva seal now which is 4 something as opposed to 7 (not quite sure what this is but apparently the lower the number the better some deviation thing). Not quite sure about AP but Vacheron uses JLC for at least some movements they have only recently started moving to in house, if i remember correctly my malte grand classique movement was the first manual wind non complicated movement they have produced in house for a long time. But anyway my point was that although it sounds nice to have an "in house movement" a lot of the top brands used another maker at one point or another so it really shouldn't be that big of an issue unless you wanna go around going "nyahh nyahh nyahh my watch has a in house movement nyahh nyahh nyahh". And another thing just because the movement is from JLC doesn't make the watch "manufactured by JLC" i.e Edward Green making shoes for RLPL. I would compare them more along the lines of BMW making the engine for the original Mclaren F1 or lotus designing the "spine" for the Nissan GTR.
     
  14. saysomething

    saysomething Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    60
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Will everyone stop referring to the Explorer as the Explorer I! Rimmers.

    The OP wants a watch on bracelet, so stop recommending Reversos. Rimmers.

    Surprised no one mentioned the Speedy Pro - looks great with anything but a tux, and can be worn anywhere but in the pool/sea. With a $5k budget, the OP could find a mint pre-owned 3570.50 and still have enough for a similar condition 2254.50

    The point of diminishing returns for a watch is far below $5k. Saying that, I have 4 watches all in the 5-8k range that all get worn and will never get sold (well maybe one). My next several purchases will all be pre-owned/vintage.

    Buy what makes you smile.
     
  15. saysomething

    saysomething Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    60
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Both the AP Dualtime and VC Overseas Dualtime use a JLC movement - not sure if there are others.
     
  16. Luvwine

    Luvwine Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Just thought I would chime in and mention a Panerai with quick release mechanism. The Panerai I have is the 233, which is above the OP's price point, but less complicated models can be had used for under $5k. The big advantage, to me, is the ability to change straps easily. I rotate about 5 different straps from ammo strap casual to shiny black alligator depending. Even though I have a "better" watch for my dress watch (Lange 1 in platinum), the Panerai is more versatile and gets more comments than my "stealth" Lange.
     
  17. dddrees

    dddrees Senior member

    Messages:
    9,161
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Actually the way I understand it the Geneva Seal refers to a certification in regards to quality of finishing and decoration of the movement and not in regards to accuracy or timing. COSC is another certification manufactures can submit for (pay for) to have their movements tested for accuracy -4/+6 seconds daily. Rolex submits more watches to COSC every year than anyone else. They make more Luxury watches than anyone else, and besides they provide the actual machine to COSC to conduct the testing.

    Anyway not long ago Patek announced that instead of having an outside agency do any testing they would certify their own watches.If you check Wikipedia you'll find that these outside agency requirements which may have meant something at one time a long time ago are no longer that difficult to meet.

    I for one would be more than happy to accept whatever watches Patek would like to give me with their own internal seal. I have full faith and confidence that their standards are pretty high..
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  18. apropos

    apropos Senior member

    Messages:
    4,456
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Typing on phone keyboard, replies will be brief.

    Patel Seal is simply a more stringent Geneva seal. There is a lot out on the net abt it.

    The JLC MC RdM is an excellent choice.
    Please take the time to handle it in person as the dial looks quite different in real life.

    Good call whoever mentioned the Speedmaster - that too is the other obvious choice.
     
  19. usctrojans31

    usctrojans31 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,282
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Location:
    New York
    

    He mentioned size being a major issue; I've never seen a Panerai in my life that isn't completely obtuse or blobby.
     
  20. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,155
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    

    Since when does a reverso have to be on a leather strap?
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by