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First Chan suit received

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by jester, Apr 25, 2005.

  1. NewYorkBuck

    NewYorkBuck Senior member

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    I had no idea Chuck was Latin. I guess Latinos make excellent ties too. [​IMG] Sona si latine loqueris.
     
  2. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    Naturlaut - I think that as a general statement it is quite easy to differentiate between when someone is making a general comment sans evil intent and when someone is being nasty, obnoxious and generally disagreeable. I don't think anyone here would be terribly likely to describe you as hostile or mean spirited.

    Kabbaz: Thanks for sticking up for me. Someone the other day said you were stupid, ugly and a lousy shirtmaker and I set him straight. You are a fine shirtmaker and I told him so.

    Policy: LOL, yes, I am lacking in masculinity and education. I bow to your superior intellect and will brush up on my Latin and debating skills. Thank you for pointing out my shortcomings so that I can learn to read and then order some self help books. Hopefully your insightful, on topic, critique of my shortcomings will allow me to become a better man and represent the gay derelict community more eloquently in the future.

    J: I know, I know... I'll stop now.
     
  3. jester

    jester Senior member

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    My god, what have I wrought? Hi, I'm the original poster, and I was on a plane for a while, or I wouldn't have let so much go by without comment--not that I was expecting such a response. Let me address a few random points right now, without attempting to get everything, or to attach these comments to the posts to which they reply. I haven't yet heard back from Chan, though I did e-mail politely expressing my disappointment. Several people commented that a main problem is the small number of fittings relative to (I assume) Savile Row or other high-end bespoke/MTM. I disagree. My Hemrajani suit had no fittings, just a measuring, and it was vastly better even on arrival, and better still after some tweaking. (BTW the original thread about this suit, along with some horrific photographs, is at First Hemrajani suit.) The things that were most problematic in the end--the shoulders, the waist shaping, the lapel height, the button placement--were all things that I was concerned with from the very start, based on Patrick's comments (as I reported at the time). This was not a case of mis-adjusting something because not enough time was spent (and, as someone else observed, this was not a 5-10 minute thing, it was at least a half-hour each time). At my measurement I wore a Savile Row suit; at the fitting I wore a conservatively styled Zegna. In both cases I expressed a liking for these suits; I wasn't looking for something different. Thanks to the early posters who apologized for criticizing the suit, but of course there was no need to apologize (to me at least), as I agree with your criticisms.
     
  4. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    he also had 3 years of Latin
    I had no idea Chuck was Latin. Â I guess Latinos make excellent ties too. Â Â [​IMG] Sona si latine loqueris.
    Uhm... I think she misunderstood when I said "I had a Latina for three years"... better not to dredge that one up.
     
  5. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    LOL

    Sorry Jester, we totally threadjacked you and exacerbated J's hangover from this weekend's various dramas.

    Hope everything works out well with the alterations and best of luck.

    Apologies for the blatant if sometimes entertaining trainwreck which originally was a sane and useful thread :)

    Mea Culpa (did I use that right?)

    Chuck
     
  6. hopkins_student

    hopkins_student Senior member

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    Wow, I just agreed with a Frenchman. This must be the first horse of the apocalypse.
     
  7. Lydia

    Lydia Senior member

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    Thanks a lot. I was waiting for someone to say it.
     
  8. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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  9. gorgekko

    gorgekko Senior member

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    Outrageous. Molson Canadian is better than any Japanese beer. [​IMG] We do have a pretty good microbrew industry up here. Hard to find them in bars but the beer stores have a nice selection. You can find some pretty interesting stuff occasionally.
     
  10. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Senior member

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    Gotta love this, huh? Citing not only the author of the post we agree with, but also the freaking time of the posting? I love StyleForum.
     
  11. Teacher

    Teacher Senior member

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  12. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    (JLibourel @ April 25 2005,19:49)
    Quote Sona si latine loqueris.
    Quomodo sonabo? Non est cornus aut tuba in quadriga mea. Ut Ennius, poeta primus et vetusissimus Latinus, dicit, "Et tuba terrible sonitu taratantara dixit."
    Yup. What this guy said. By the way, just how do you translate the English "insane tirade of cess, vitriol, and homophobia" into Latin? Man, reading some of this made me perspire. Time for a bourbon...oh hell, it's ALWAYS time for a bourbon.
    Wow... took how many pages for this one to degenerate to "ah screw it, grab a bourbon"? If I might offer some advice... in my trade high school I heard something about Elijah Craig 18 year old....
     
  13. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    This is a very interesting post. Thanks LA Guy.

    Every so often I re-read John Paul's encylical on labor. It's an amazing document. Blows the doors off most of the arguments by the left AND right. Anyway, more to the point: I'd thought less (actually not at all) about the Confucian or intellectual/spiritual side of it, then from a more materialist/cultural side: i.e., in mainland China, at least (and I think we should probably keep this distinct from HK -- or at least we should've until 1997 and probably still should) there appears to be little motivation to "do a job well" not only because as LAG points out, the labor is not valued, but because that the ethos behind the sort of labor that would've been valued was probably crippled (and probably eradicated) by Communism, Cultural Revolution, ensuing aftermath, etc. I'd want to keep distinct various "Asians". To my mind (and I could be wrong) it's about as useful to think of "Asians" as it is "Africans", what with tribalism, etc. etc.
     
  14. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    (policy @ April 25 2005,14:24) Quote Please note: it's not that I don't respect the work of a tailor, but in Asia, people are not as dedicated in their work than one would find on the Row or in Italy.
    What is it about fashion that allows this kind of blatant racist, xenophobic bashing with absolutely no rebuke? You insult gays and people jump down your throat. Call Asians lazy and people completely ignore it as if it's gospel. I haven't seen this kind of racist, xenophobia since I posted pics of my botched suit. I hope for your sake Jester that they make due on that suit, it looks precariously close to the suit I had done at another Asian tailor. At least people haven't accused you of being a mismeasurer.
    Damn, I've to wake up to this .... I'm only up to page 4 at this moment, but just need to clarify this, since I was one of the first posters. Â I am Asian; actually to be exact, I am from Hong Kong, even though I have spent most of my adult life elsewhere. Â My experiences with local tailors are no less than Marc's experiences with tailors from the Row or in Napoli, so I think I can speak with authority here. Â Yes, I would reiterate my statement (in essence), that tailors here are not as dedicated in their work than tailors I've known on the Row or in Italy, or even in New York. Â This is a fact that local tailors, regardless of price (those who know me will also know that I judge a product strictly by merit, never price), are incapable of producing product of consistent quality. Â Note: I never, ever, said that they are incapable of producing a quality product; it is the consistency that a consumer needs most. Â And this phenomenon can be seen across many industries here, from local restaurants to local (or China-made) tangible goods to tailors. Â However, in the case of food and tangible goods, consistency is not something to be proud of even in other places, so I don't stress that as much. Â In tailoring, or other form of arts equivalent, the differences are much more apparent. Â I have commissioned numerous pieces from local tailors (it's my little addiction, even though none has produced what I wanted, I still continue commissioning, improving if only a little from the previous work), and also from tailors from the Row and in Italy, and I have to honestly say that my meager experieces elsewhere are more enjoyable than those here, even though I get to go for fittings much more often (three, sometimes four fitting for a suit). Â It is quite coincidentally that this comes up today. Â I was just at a fitting yesterday for some linen shirts and pants (to match my Borrelli white jacket, remember?) and, as usual, found some little irregularities in the shirt. Â It is absolutely ok (hey, I could never play a piece note-perfect either). Â I brought up the topic of consistency with my tailor, and he admitted that he will never be able to produce that kind of consistency found in Row tailors --- I am only talking about simple things, like making collars that are symmetric or sleeves length exact. Â Note: I never, ever said that he was not capable of making a great shirt, it's just that it is not sustainable and consistent. Â Even at Ascot Chang, every shirt comes back with varying level of pattern-matching: sometimes excellent, sometimes not as good. Â See if you can find that in Borrelli or Battistoni. I am not racist, but I am a realist when comes to consuming. Â I have few interests but know what I am doing within those, and I never looked down on anybody, especially me myself being a 100% pure bred Chinese. Â Having lived in different places make me realize that different people are indeed capable of producing different kinds of work; and I think we are each created with different levels of abilities. Â Ask Koji: who are the most diligent students in the world? Â Come on, you can't beat students from China or Russia, who, at an early age, practice 12 hours a day --- now, these are people who can play note-perfect. Â But in the world of sartorial arts, I am sorry to say, but Hong Kong is just not the place. Â You are trying to tell me that Kong Wo (sp?) shoemaker at Princes' building here is comparable to Lobb, or even second-rate makers in Italy? Â But let me tell you, that's the best shoemaker in Hong Kong, and every billionare is a customer there. Â And again, no, their work is not consistent, to an extent that little people like me can see 'defects' or inadequacies in their work with bare eyes. Â Let me get to page 5 ...[/quote] Nat: thanks for post I've seen Wo's work in the Prince's building. Know many that have had shoes made there. Wonder if you might not find time sometime to provide reviews of major HK tailors from the inside out, like A Man and Sams and who ever it is that's been in the Formosa hotel forever (cannot recall name). Thanks. H.
     
  15. Teacher

    Teacher Senior member

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  16. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    I'd like to respond, but it'll probably get me kicked off this forum.
     
  17. joseanes

    joseanes Senior member

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    Interesting. I believe the ethos of work (of SOME people) has ALSO been crippled in the USA, UK, Italy, France and other socialism (social help) influenced countries. Someone who is afraid of loosing his/her job and not having enough to feed and house his/her children may work harder and better than someone that knows that if he/she looses his/her job the worst that could happen is that they end up in unemployment compensation or in welfare and a public housing site.

    I believe there are people everywhere in the world who value work. There are also a lot of people in the world that just do their work with the minimal possible effort to receive the paycheck.

    Lets not generalize.

    --- Edited to remove the words "It is human nature" from the next to the last parragraph.
     
  18. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    I am not sure if innate pride in accomplishment is human nature, or is something instilled by ancestors. I must note, however, that you have theorized about this sans evidence. Hence, I see no reason to accept the veracity of your statement.
     
  19. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    Originally Posted by Luc-Emmanuel,April 25 2005,11:37
    Well, maybe it's just because they are not PAID as much. Now, could you take all this political correctness bullshit somewhere else? bad wages = bad quality. period. luc
    Don't you have some Germans to surrender to?
    Weren't like 350,000 French soldiers killed by the Germans before the French surrender? Â Maybe keep that in mind. Oh, what am I saying, you've been banned.
     
  20. JBZ

    JBZ Senior member

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    Mmmm...bourbon. Sorry, this was the first useful thing I had to say with regard to this thread. I haven't had the pleasure of the Elijah Craig, but I hope to one day.

    I also would be remiss if I didn't note that J is using Hans Gruber as his avatar (truly one of the most stylish terrorists ever to grace the silver screen), and that he even worked one of Hans' lines in a recent post. Yes, I'm a movie geek.

    Jeff
     

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