Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by jester, Apr 25, 2005.
Right again, Z.
I wonder how Chan would react if you cited the UCC to them.
What is it about fashion that allows this kind of blatant racist, xenophobic bashing with absolutely no rebuke? You insult gays and people jump down your throat. Call Asians lazy and people completely ignore it as if it's gospel. I haven't seen this kind of racist, xenophobia since I posted pics of my botched suit.
I hope for your sake Jester that they make due on that suit, it looks precariously close to the suit I had done at another Asian tailor.
At least people haven't accused you of being a mismeasurer.
I expected better from you.
Well, maybe it's just because they are not PAID as much. Now, could you take all this political correctness bullshit somewhere else?
bad wages = bad quality. period.
Ah. I missed that the first time through this thread.
Naturlaut: Do you have any explanation other than outright racism for making this statement? Because I sure can't see any defensible alternative explanations.
Let me try to save Naturlat (who I believe is Asian himself):
The workload at the Asian tailoring firms like Chan is much heavier than the workload at Savile Row and Italian firms, etc. Unlike a Savile Row suit, where the turnaround time can be up to a year, the Chan's of the Asian world try to turn their product around in a matter of weeks (I got my second Chan suit 16 days after I ordered it). Combine quick turnaround times with heavy workloads, and workers have less time to dedicate to each particular garment.
Don't you have some Germans to surrender to?
Well, Luc, I'd say you are about half right. Bad wages equals bad quality as a general matter because the most skilled workers migrate toward the better paying jobs.
However, while Chan might pay bad wages as compared to jobs globally, Chan might be some of the best wages in the Hong Kong tailoring trade. If this is the case, then as long as there is an adequate skilled tailoring force (which has to do with training passed along generation to generation), Chan's globally low wages should have nothing to do with quality. It's not as if the skilled tailors are migrating to higher paying Hong Kong tailoring jobs, or switching to higher paying industries.
Yes JN3, Chan probably has the best around available. The truth is probably half between low wages, and extended work periods.
Plus, missing basted fitting won't help.
I dissagree with that statement. Is a school teacher (for example) in San Francisco or New York better than a similar professional in lets say Miami, FL, or Austin, TX? The former is paid more than the later. Why? Cost of living on the area? Offer and Demand? However, you can't say it is just about quality. I will give you even another reason why wages doesn't necessarily mean quality. Take shirts. CEGO is a good shirtmaker according to most people around here in the forum. His shirts are about what?? $125 to $200 (excuse me if I made a mistake, I do not have any of his shirts, unfortunately). However www.listerouge-paris.com shirts are about $260 (200 Euro). Even a "discount" shirtmaker in italy: www.mungai.com produces shirts in the $150 range (115 Euros) after the most simple options and shipping. Which one is a better shirt? We can't say that the "low" wage they pay in the states causes a bad shirt. After all, our wages here in the states have been "lowered" because of unfavorable exchange rates. But the quality remains the same - Good quality. We can all say that there are great, recognized tailors in england and Italy. Maybe the best in the world are there. But we can't say that just because a tailor doesn't receive the same salary as a Saville Row tailor he/she produces bad quality.
Besides, I think this misses the point of nataurlat (sp?) original comment. He was implying that there is something inherent about Asians that makes them take less pride in their work than a Saville Row or Italian tailor takes. I doubt that this is true, and low wages would have no effect on this. There are people in third-world countries that chop wood for pennies that take great pride in the work that they do and do a quality job.
I would attribute the poor quality of this suit to (1) having too many customers, (2) having a quick turnaround time, (3) having less fittings, and (4) bad luck. I would not automatically attribute to some lack of pride that Asians across the board have in their work product.
If a mere lurker like myself could be permitted to jump in on this, I think a few points are clear. Â First, the reference to dedication in work is limited to tailors, not all Asians, hence the comparison against Italy and Savile Row. Â So I don't think it's plausible to read that statement as calling all Asians lazy. Â Second, the remark, while vague, may refer to the author's perceptions of the cultural habits of Asian tailors. Â Understood as such, it cannot be "racist" as that slur is reserved for thoughts that are premised on biological distinctions, whether real or invented. Â Third, I just don't see how it could be "xenophobic" to suggest that certain tailors from other lands are less competent. Â Xenophobia is a fear of foreigners. Â
Judging from the photos that started this thread, the only thing we have to fear is Chan itself...
Please note: it's not that I don't respect the work of a tailor, but in Asia, people are not as dedicated in their work than one would find on the Row or in Italy.
If a mere lurker like myself could be permitted to jump in on this, I think a few points are clear. Â First, the reference to dedication in work is limited to tailors, not all Asians, hence the comparison against Italy and Savile Row. Â So I don't think it's plausible to read that statement as calling all Asians lazy. Â Second, the remark, while vague, may refer to the author's perceptions of the cultural habits of Asian tailors. Â Understood as such, it cannot be "racist" as that slur is reserved for thoughts that are premised on biological distinctions, whether real or invented. Â Third, I just don't see how it could be "xenophobic" to suggest that certain tailors from other lands are less competent. Â Xenophobia is a fear of foreigners. Â Judging from the photos that started this thread, the only thing we have to fear is Chan itself...
Jump away: 1)Do you believe that one facet of a society can have negative characteristics while another does not, particularly if that facet is an occupation? 2)The posters perception is that Asians (Mongloids) are producing a sub-standard and inferior product to Europeans (Caucasoids), both of which are RACES, hence the comment is RACIST. 3)I believe it's Xenophobic because there is an underlying culture of hatred towards Asians on this board and another fashion board for this reason I believe: a)The bespoke industry is dying in Europe b)The bespoke industry is growing in Asia a1)If it becomes possible (or is possible) to obtain a bespoke garment from Asia for 1/2 or less the price than a European bespoke garment; the elitism which accompanies Saville Row clothing will be lessened in the eyes of those that have paid $3000+ for their suits. You saw this kind of attitude in American in the 70s when Japanese car manufacturers began to sell Hondas and Toyotas here. Thankfully you dont see anyone referring to Asian tailors as Slants or worse; at least we don't see it - I'm sure it's happening verbally.
The poor fellow just wants to know about his suit. I don't think it will fit better, no matter what provision you invoke of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. However, there are various Federal and State statutes which do cover Hijaaking. Counsellors?
We're just amusing ourselves until he comes in and tells us how Chan is going to rectify the situation. There isn't really anything more to say about the original poster's situation until we have this information.
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