Filson Bag Thread: With Pictures

[OtterMeanGreen]

lol, that's an industrial sewing machine! notice the cut length of zippers lying to the right. its sewing the zipper to the leather. Zipper is manufactured in a long continuous strand. it is then cut to length, and keepers are attached at the ends. this determines the final length. it is sold in standard lengths to manufacturers. Filson uses a lot of it, they use 'custom' lengths. the rolls are provided and they cut them to length to use as they need fit. I have no idea what kind of machine YKK sent them to use. I do know that manufacturing a zipper is very complicated, you have to make the individual teeth which is an industrial process (go back to the thread, pretty involved) then they have to be attached to the tape, and the keepers and stops (also individually manufactured) are attached. its highly unIikely, but possible that YKK supplies Filson with a machine where all the teeth are fed into it and it assembles them onto the tape, what do I know? either way that is assembling, not manufacturing. I am only going by what ive read and what ive been told. personally, I'm satisfied with that, but feel free to dig deeper and get the whole story.

That’s one snapshot of an entire process, the blurb under the picture is why I shared it. Why would YKK admit to not being able to keep up with Filson’s demands? why who they supply them with a very rare machine to a customer? Doesn’t make any sense if it’s just for cutting and sewing, something you don’t need a special secret machine for? If anything further digging is required, as I don’t feel that the argument is ironclad. The article I provided was written 1 year and 8 months after yours and actually states the YKK zipper machine, even going as far as openly saying they’re making their own zippers. Plus there’s more to a zipper that just the teeth, the pull & slider themselves are part of the manufacturing process, this machine could very well be making the both pull & sliders from scratch as article is eluding to.

 

[Stratkat]

That’s one snapshot of an entire process, the blurb under the picture is why I shared it. Why would YKK admit to not being able to keep up with Filson’s demands? why who they supply them with a very rare machine to a customer? Doesn’t make any sense if it’s just for cutting and sewing, something you don’t need a special secret machine for? If anything further digging is required, as I don’t feel that the argument is ironclad. The article I provided was written 1 year and 8 months after yours and actually states the YKK zipper machine, even going as far as openly saying they’re making their own zippers.

so many questions, so few answers! get back to us with your findings please...

 

[Stratkat]

... ill leave you with this though. if zipper is already produced in length, on rolls, why on earth would you want to complicate you business and have to add more steps? what would that be gaining to Filson? they are trying to make a profit right, I'm sure they don't want to add steps.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

so many questions, so few answers! get back to us with your findings please...

Because it’s this simple, you don’t need a rare YKK machine to simply cut the product. A simple sewing machine and brass cutting scissors would make that machines cost pretty obsolete. As you mentioned it’s about profit. The article already states that YKK can’t keep up with the demand, so they supplied them with a machine to make their own zippers (as stated in article).

Well we’re not gonna get to the bottom of this by merely calling customer service, so we’re going to have to rely on other means, which I’ve already started supplying. This probably won’t be resolved unless someone takes the factory tour and actually asks the question to someone more qualified to know what they’re talking about (like a production manager). As it seems today there are way too many holes for this to be conclusive.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

I haven’t read any of the articles, but your assessment makes sense, and supports the idea of a “custom cut” zipper. That customization must be the length not the teeth themselves. Presumably the actual teeth are cast before being glued (?) to the tape.

You don’t have to read the articles just read my above posting which is a snippet of the article I provided (in quotations). This particular article was written about 20 months after the one Strat provided with the CEO (Gray Madden) who resigned at the end of 2016

 

[Stratkat]

You don’t have to read the articles just read my above posting which is a snippet of the article I provided (in quotations). This particular article was written about 20 months after the one Strat provided with the CEO (Gray Madden) who resigned at the end of 2016

... and we all know I am not to be trusted with anything I say or provide, without 3 or 4 forms of hardcopy documentation. so take that into consideration.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

... and we all know I am not to be trusted with anything I say or provide, without 3 or 4 forms of hardcopy documentation. so take that into consideration.

No need for that. You posted a “gotcha” style post and i reciprocated with an article written over 18 months after contradicting the below statement. Those are the facts. I’ve shared my many experiences on this thread with just how unreliable Filson CS dept is, so there’s also that. If you feel like your conversation with them satisfiies your argument then it has, not trying to take that away from you.

In case anyone still questioned whether Filson has its own zipper making machines...

 

[nevadabob]

re: zippers. Not sure if this is a reliable source, but...

"custom" cut at filson - Google Search

Now, this might not be enough for some, but I think most of us can agree that if Filson was indeed manufacturing its own zippers in house, Filson would say that in its own marketing.

Some people have a beef with Shinola for importing parts from elsewhere and putting a finished product together here in the states. In effect, I believe that's what Filson does with the zippers - buys a part it needs, in as close to finished form as it can be than makes the final step(s) and puts it together in house.

Oh and for the guys that have issues with Shinola, most of Filson's products are "Made in USA of imported Material" (as stated in Filson's own marketing). Neither tin cloth nor twill is made in USA.

 

[soybean]

re: zippers. Not sure if this is a reliable source, but...

"custom" cut at filson - Google Search

View attachment 1197588

Now, this might not be enough for some, but I think most of us can agree that if Filson was indeed manufacturing its own zippers in house, Filson would say that in its own marketing.

Some people have a beef with Shinola for importing parts from elsewhere and putting a finished product together here in the states. In effect, I believe that's what Filson does with the zippers - buys a part it needs, in as close to finished form as it can be than makes the final step(s) and puts it together in house.

Oh and for the guys that have issues with Shinola, most of Filson's products are "Made in USA of imported Material" (as stated in Filson's own marketing). Neither tin cloth nor twill is made in USA.

I was just getting ready to mention the same point that nevadabob made. My guess is that Filson has a YKK machine that automates the custom cutting of different length zippers.
Who knew how much work went into making a zipper?

YKK apparently does EVERYTHING it can in-house. Including smelting its own brass and making the boxes that the zippers ship in.
https://ykknorthamerica.com/the-ykk-difference/vertical-integration/

Why Do So Many Zippers Say YKK?

The zipper is one of those inventions—along with the bicycle—that seems as though it should have occurred much earlier in history. How complicated...

slate.com

 

[nevadabob]

Great video. The good stuff starts about 1:10 into it. There are many different machines that go into making a zipper. Who knew?

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

re: zippers. Not sure if this is a reliable source, but...

"custom" cut at filson - Google Search

View attachment 1197588

Now, this might not be enough for some, but I think most of us can agree that if Filson was indeed manufacturing its own zippers in house, Filson would say that in its own marketing.

Some people have a beef with Shinola for importing parts from elsewhere and putting a finished product together here in the states. In effect, I believe that's what Filson does with the zippers - buys a part it needs, in as close to finished form as it can be than makes the final step(s) and puts it together in house.

Oh and for the guys that have issues with Shinola, most of Filson's products are "Made in USA of imported Material" (as stated in Filson's own marketing). Neither tin cloth nor twill is made in USA.

LOL I wouldn't put any weight on what Filson describes on their website, especially with how they butchered the 22 ounce Rugged Twill claims each bag (which was a staple for decades); utilizing now the broad claims of "100% Cotton Rugged Twill". They even removed the 101 description of Rugged Twill on their website to this broadly painted statement:

To respond that screenshot doesn't say that the zippers are being custom cut come assembled at YKK, which isn't mentioned in the most up to date article covering such topics. If they were making their own materials in house then that is right in line with what I am attempting at proving here. Again you don't need a super secret machine to simply cut product, at least that's what I think, so you're right in saying that isn't enough for some (meaning me I'm guessing). Again I am not trying to deduce that Filson is making the entire process of the YKK Zipper, never did I say that. However I am arguing that Filson is making an integral component that YKK can't keep up with demands, hence a machine was provided. This very well could be only the "Pull & Slider" that bears a custom embossed Filson Logo. I would imagine after nearly 30 years of production they could figure out a way to attach a pull and slider to the teeth, considering both FRD and Repair Dept do that regardless when designing or repairing a bag. Doesn't make any sense cost wise to replace the full zipper assembly when a slider/pull tab needs replacing, at least not monetarily speaking.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

I was just getting ready to mention the same point that nevadabob made. My guess is that Filson has a YKK machine that automates the custom cutting of different length zippers.
Who knew how much work went into making a zipper?

YKK apparently does EVERYTHING it can in-house. Including smelting its own brass and making the boxes that the zippers ship in.
https://ykknorthamerica.com/the-ykk-difference/vertical-integration/

Why Do So Many Zippers Say YKK?

The zipper is one of those inventions—along with the bicycle—that seems as though it should have occurred much earlier in history. How complicated...

slate.com

If that is true then literally every bag manufacturer would have one of these rare machines that YKK provided Filson, since they too would require a way to custom cut their zippers before mating it to their products. YKK is simply a manufacturer of a product, they don't have a division finalizing products at their warehouse. This would mean that every company utilizing their products have a machine that custom cuts the zippers prior to sewing onto bags. That doesn't describe anything about keeping up with increased demands. There are many other companies that use YKK that have more product lines utilizing its products. There's more to this conversation that hasn't been discussed yet. The article I keep citing was given by Filson's own Factory Manager (Teresa Whittaker) and it speaks of "cranking out their own zippers". If anything she would be the one to ask as it doesn't make sense to me that they are only cutting a zipper to different lengths.

 

[soybean]

If that is true then literally every bag manufacturer would have one of these rare machines that YKK provided Filson, since they too would require a way to custom cut their zippers before mating it to their products. YKK is simply a manufacturer of a product, they don't have a division finalizing products at their warehouse. This would mean that every company utilizing their products have a machine that custom cuts the zippers prior to sewing onto bags. That doesn't describe anything about keeping up with increased demands. There are many other companies that use YKK that have more product lines utilizing its products. There's more to this conversation that hasn't been discussed yet. The article I keep citing was given by Filson's own Factory Manager (Teresa Whittaker) and it speaks of "cranking out their own zippers". If anything she would be the one to ask as it doesn't make sense to me that they are only cutting a zipper to different lengths.

My thought is that YKK manufacturers many different standard lengths of zippers. I believe that they do "finalize" their product by differing lengths. Other bag manufacturers would order the size(s) that they use. Filson utilizes very heavy duty brass zippers that you don't see used on a lot of other things. Not in the quantities that Filson uses. They use a lot of them and in different lengths. It's possible that YKK had a hard time keeping up with all the different lengths of heavy brass zips and simply allows Filson to "Custom Cut" their own. It's simply a guess and maybe we will find out down the road.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

My thought is that YKK manufacturers many different standard lengths of zippers. I believe that they do "finalize" their product by differing lengths. Other bag manufacturers would order the size(s) that they use. Filson utilizes very heavy duty brass zippers that you don't see used on a lot of other things. Not in the quantities that Filson uses. They use a lot of them and in different lengths. It's possible that YKK had a hard time keeping up with all the different lengths of heavy brass zips and simply allows Filson to "Custom Cut" their own. It's simply a guess and maybe we will find out down the road.

I can appreciate that. Again I am not arguing that Filson has a machine that makes the zipper teeth or doesn't have something that custom cuts the length, never in any of my many statements on the subject have I eluded to that, I still find it hard to believe that a machine is required to perform that task that meets Filson's own specification. What I find more plausible is that YKK supplied Filson with it's own Slider & Pull Tab machine, as they would require something like that to create what is pictured below, which is custom to Filson. Note that these zippers aren't attached to the corresponding teeth. Previously in the YKK and Talon Era, the zipper wasn't utilized to advertise the Filson name, so it makes sense that a specific machine to custom cut the logo wasn't needed or required. Filson is the only company I've seen utilizing this method on a YKK zipper. With the advancements in 3-D Printing and computer generated graphics, this falls in line with the point I'm trying to prove.

Taken from Filson.com:

 

[Stratkat]

The more rational of you can consider this. Of course it’s still coming from customer support. But at least it’s been ‘documented’