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CCF1897

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Interesting observation. I guess the hunting/ fishing market has changed? Ageing out or shifting to more technical and lighter materials? And the outfitter / compartment etc bags were complex and more expensive to make. Meanwhile the private equity owners need to show growth so cheaper / varied options across bags and clothes allow them to try new markets - eg workware.
That said, the Filson stores still feel like they want to embrace the traditional outdoor aesthetic. I certainly don’t get the feeling I’m walking into RL or LL Bean. Interestingly in London there is Filson, Redwing and RRL all in the same small street. RRL feels the least authentic by a long way.
I think I’ve said this before, but the old school part of Filson that we like so much is probably only possible because of the newer stuff. Could a Filson that sold just twill bags, tin cloth and wool garments survive? I don’t know.
Fashions and economics do cycle around too. Perhaps they will do a heritage line and revive the old designs (at steep $$$ of course) one day. I guess FRD and workshop stuff is a bit of a nod in that direction.
A last thought: Personally I’ve come to trust Filson’s long experience. I know If I buy a shirt or a bag it’ll work well and feel good - as long as it’s one of the classic designs. So on that basis what really is missing? There are briefcase options in 2 sizes, two field bags, 3 duffles, several rolling duffles, a tin cloth overnight (48hr), and a few different backpacks. That’s pretty good unless your needs are super specialized?
I can’t speak for the fishing market but the hunting market has blown up over the last 5 years with small batch producers of high end gear and it’s showing no signs of slowing down. It’s actually becoming crowded in my opinion. These bags/coats can be used in the field, flights, hotels etc. I can recommend a alternative outfitter bag @McRiz if you’d like to message me.
 

McRiz

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I can’t speak for the fishing market but the hunting market has blown up over the last 5 years with small batch producers of high end gear and it’s showing no signs of slowing down. It’s actually becoming crowded in my opinion. These bags/coats can be used in the field, flights, hotels etc. I can recommend a alternative outfitter bag @McRiz if you’d like to message me.
Thank you. I actually have a large tan outfitter which I got in the secondary market. I think with the exception of the Large Carry On (242) and the compartment bag (although I have the soft side cooler), I have owned, or currently own, the majority of the discontinued bags identified. I really like the Filson brand. I was just trying to point out that Filson seems not to do anything to advance its Twill products and seems to be discontinuing the Twill products every year. I would just like the brand more if they actually did something with the twill bags beyond simple duffles, totes, and original briefcases.

I am not knocking the tin cloth products as I own the 48 hour bag. I thinks it's alright, and would be 100 times better if it was in twill.

I don't think I would ever get a nylon or Dryden product as they are not the quality you would expect from Filson, aside from not being made in the USA.

With respect to clothing, Filson use to advertise dry tin cloth cruiser vests, moleskin vests, the Alaskan Guide shirt, and the goofy red suspenders as staple products. They don't seem to have any of the vests anymore (and apparently have been forgotten), and the suspenders are hidden somewhere in the website. The Alaskan Guide Shirt is no longer made in the USA. All of this is just disappointing (for me).

I know that fashion ebbs and flows and Filson is a business. I just hate to see this business turn into an Abercrombie and Fitch.

Sorry if I sound like a negative Nancy, and I hopefully have not offended anyone with my own, highly subjective opinions.
 

OtterMeanGreen

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Thank you. I actually have a large tan outfitter which I got in the secondary market. I think with the exception of the Large Carry On (242) and the compartment bag (although I have the soft side cooler), I have owned, or currently own, the majority of the discontinued bags identified. I really like the Filson brand. I was just trying to point out that Filson seems not to do anything to advance its Twill products and seems to be discontinuing the Twill products every year. I would just like the brand more if they actually did something with the twill bags beyond simple duffles, totes, and original briefcases.

I am not knocking the tin cloth products as I own the 48 hour bag. I thinks it's alright, and would be 100 times better if it was in twill.

I don't think I would ever get a nylon or Dryden product as they are not the quality you would expect from Filson, aside from not being made in the USA.

With respect to clothing, Filson use to advertise dry tin cloth cruiser vests, moleskin vests, the Alaskan Guide shirt, and the goofy red suspenders as staple products. They don't seem to have any of the vests anymore (and apparently have been forgotten), and the suspenders are hidden somewhere in the website. The Alaskan Guide Shirt is no longer made in the USA. All of this is just disappointing (for me).

I know that fashion ebbs and flows and Filson is a business. I just hate to see this business turn into an Abercrombie and Fitch.

Sorry if I sound like a negative Nancy, and I hopefully have not offended anyone with my own, highly subjective opinions.
I just want everyone to know that @McRiz is not a backup account for @OtterMeanGreen :lol: and this is not me having a conversation with myself here

I kid I kid. You have many of the same viewpoints that I have expressed on here over the past 2 or 3 years.
 

Soletrane

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I wholeheartedly agree with the observation regarding Filson’s narrowing of twill offerings. I think most of the older discontinued twill bags were more expensive to manufacture and with the current business model, they would be prohibitively expensive and may not sell well as a result.

Another observation. I have some of the older discontinued bags: the Sportsman 266, 242, the LTB 248, the old sized Medium 222. They are all relatively bulky and heavy when packed at capacity (with the exception of the small duffle) as flight carry-on baggage. Sure, I still use them but I know there are lighter bags out there. Great for throwing in the back of my SUV though for a camping trip or a road trip to the in-laws but like many people today most of my overnight travel is via plane.

The current Filson market may be increasingly oriented towards business and leisure airline travel with lighter weight materials and different pocketing (e.g. 48h bag) to tap that large affluent market. Outdoorsmen have other higher tech options now as someone else noted so the demand for say a $595 or $695 MSRP Outfitter bag today may be less than it was 25 years ago with an older generation of hunters and anglers. The duffles are probably fine for the vast majority of travelers interested in a general travel bag (as the least specialized and most streamlined bag configuration). I am guessing Filson does its market research so the winnowing of twill bags is a calculated move. Not necessarily happy about it but I can see how it could happen.
 
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TinMan3

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I wholeheartedly agree with the observation regarding Filson’s narrowing of twill offerings. I think most of the older discontinued twill bags were more expensive to manufacture and with the current business model, they would be prohibitively expensive and may not sell well as a result.

Another observation. I have some of the older discontinued bags: the Sportsman 266, 242, the LTB 248, the old sized Medium 222. They are all relatively bulky and heavy when packed at capacity (with the exception of the small duffle) as flight carry-on baggage. Sure, I still use them but I know there are lighter bags out there. Great for throwing in the back of my SUV though for a camping trip or a road trip to the in-laws but like many people today most of my overnight travel is via plane.

The current Filson market may be increasingly oriented towards business and leisure airline travel with lighter weight materials and different pocketing (e.g. 48h bag) to tap that large affluent market. Outdoorsmen have other higher tech options now as someone else noted so the demand for say a $595 or $695 MSRP Outfitter bag today may be less than it was 25 years ago with an older generation of hunters and anglers. The duffles are probably fine for the vast majority of travelers interested in a general travel bag (as the least specialized and most streamlined bag configuration). I am guessing Filson does its market research so the winnowing of twill bags is a calculated move. Not necessarily happy about it but I can see how it could happen.
I think you hit it on the head here. The demand simply isn’t there for the required markup on the larger/heavier and more complex twill bags. Too many alternatives/ changes in the travel industry as a whole for these types of bags to continue to make sense. I think most of discontinuances over the years are a result of lagging sales more than anything else.

Where I will definitely agree with @McRiz is that I wish they would focus some of their R&D on twill. While I understand the weight factor, it is still by far the most durable fabric that Filson offers (with the exception of heavy tin and isn’t really readily in Filsons lineup). We have been swooning over the possibility of a 48 hour in twill forever on this thread. I don’t remember who posted it but someone mentioned that they tried to do it and the pockets just couldn’t be done with the heavier fabric. Anyways, investment in your second most storied product line behind the mackinaw wool clothing I would think would be worthwhile, but they must know something we don’t.
 

speedy611

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I think you hit it on the head here. The demand simply isn’t there for the required markup on the larger/heavier and more complex twill bags. Too many alternatives/ changes in the travel industry as a whole for these types of bags to continue to make sense. I think most of discontinuances over the years are a result of lagging sales more than anything else.

Where I will definitely agree with @McRiz is that I wish they would focus some of their R&D on twill. While I understand the weight factor, it is still by far the most durable fabric that Filson offers (with the exception of heavy tin and isn’t really readily in Filsons lineup). We have been swooning over the possibility of a 48 hour in twill forever on this thread. I don’t remember who posted it but someone mentioned that they tried to do it and the pockets just couldn’t be done with the heavier fabric. Anyways, investment in your second most storied product line behind the mackinaw wool clothing I would think would be worthwhile, but they must know something we don’t.
I’m not sure it moves the conversation forward, but here’s a thought on the twill 48. If the pockets are the challenge, make a single long pocket across the front. Suddenly you have an oversized 258 don’t you? Remove the padding of the 258 and lengthen the handles for shoulder carry and you have a credible 48hr in twill. Tweak the details like internal organization, storm flap and hard base and away you go.
 

nevadabob

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I agree as well. What really irritates me, though, is Filson has really pushed up the price of the tin cloth bags in the last couple of years. There used to be quite a delta between a tin version and twill version of the same bag. Now, not so much.
 

TinMan3

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I’m not sure it moves the conversation forward, but here’s a thought on the twill 48. If the pockets are the challenge, make a single long pocket across the front. Suddenly you have an oversized 258 don’t you? Remove the padding of the 258 and lengthen the handles for shoulder carry and you have a credible 48hr in twill. Tweak the details like internal organization, storm flap and hard base and away you go.
Yes, and then go sportsman on the inside with a couple of snap dividers built in. Ooh I’m liking this already! I’ve always thought it was a shame that Filson never used us as a free focus group. Lol
 

originalhype

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Here is my collection so far.
from top to bottom

Filson pullman
Medium travel bag in navy (this is the time when navy and brown where not rigid and no structured)
Small duffle in brown (brown is now rigid and structured)
rucksack in green and tan
tote
4 travel tray (at the time it was on sale for $10 each, so bought all 4 colors)
1321077
 

mgrennier

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Yes, and then go sportsman on the inside with a couple of snap dividers built in. Ooh I’m liking this already! I’ve always thought it was a shame that Filson never used us as a free focus group. Lol
To continue this "focus group-type" conversation. I always thought the perfect EDC would be the 24 hour bag in twill. I've made that comment a few times. Thus, it's so far fallen on deaf ears, so let me jump in to the 48 hour bag discussion:

I think of the similarities and differences between the 48 hour bag and a regular (new) medium duffle. Both are designed for long weekends (although the medium duffle can probably hold more). Both open with a zipper at the top, both can be either hand-carried or via shoulder strap, and both are called duffles.

However, it's the refinements that make the 48 hour bag more attractive to many. I think the shape, more upright than round, is more appealing. The pockets on the outside certainly make it more functional for airplane travel (an ipad fits nicely in the slot pockets on the front) and the structured bottom give it more of a 'suitcase' feel than a duffle-bag feel.

It feels more like a grown-up version of a duffle bag than a traditional duffle, which is one reason why it would seem to appeal to the affluent business traveler marketplace.

Would the twill make it heavier?
 

mgrennier

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Here is my collection so far.
from top to bottom

Filson pullman
Medium travel bag in navy (this is the time when navy and brown where not rigid and no structured)
Small duffle in brown (brown is now rigid and structured)
rucksack in green and tan
tote
4 travel tray (at the time it was on sale for $10 each, so bought all 4 colors)
View attachment 1321077
[/QUOT
Nice collection - I've always wanted one of those travel trays - but never pulled the trigger. Would be a nice little thing to have during my frequent hotel stays.
 

OtterMeanGreen

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I also looked at one of those Travel Trays, at $10 I would definitely have pulled the trigger. I instead decided that if I were to buy a Travel Tray it would instead be a Red Oxx

Bigger, Squarer, but not twill


Love the finger board, interesting EDC item

red oxx.jpg
 

OtterMeanGreen

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Yes, and then go sportsman on the inside with a couple of snap dividers built in. Ooh I’m liking this already! I’ve always thought it was a shame that Filson never used us as a free focus group. Lol
If Stanley Kohl's still had a majority stake in Filson I have no doubt we would've been considered
 

OtterMeanGreen

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Would the twill make it heavier?
With the elimination of that ridiculous sewed in board on the bottom of the 48HR, it would certainly save on weight space needed for the Rugged Twill

Speaking of #258, this has gotta be one of the best patinated Talon Era Filsons I have seen, reminds me of @GzStudio avatar.


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