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Fighters?

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by Brian SD, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    globe, that sounds incredibly violent. There should be a balance - you get to the point where you know what hurts, but so you can also keep your cool and actually do the technique correctly instead of going crazy and bashing each other as hard as you can. Good training is so important.

    I've come home with bloody hands plenty of times but that was only because I forgot to bring handwraps, and I've torn up my elbow a few times on failed board breaks. I would be afraid of a dojo that was full contact all the time. You wouldn't learn anything if you just got the shit beat out of you all the time!



    hard to argue - I guess you need the right balance. I certainly wouldn't be up for that at this stage in my life.

    actually, though, I don't know if it was so violent, or jsut tough. we hit a lot of stuff, and worked very hard, and were used to our teacher giving us a little kick every now and again.

    by the way - any of you guys ever go to fightingarts.com?
     
  2. Matt

    Matt Senior member

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    I have a friend who is a black belt in akido, he actually studied summers for 3 or 4 years in japan, and he has been studying aikido for about 10 years. he is a lot smaller than me, maybe 70 pounds. a while back he kept pushing me to "Wrestle" him, saying how he had such skills he would be able to toss me. anyway - when he caught his breath, after I had plastered him to a wall, it was like his life had changed. he had spent 10 years doing a highly ritualized system that pretty much assumed everyone would be barefoot and in pajamas, and he really believed in his super powers. [​IMG]
    yeah i watched a thing on aiki last night on the Discovery Channel. It seems remarkably effective when fighting people who have their hands exactly where you need them to thrown them and who arent willing to do anything other than what you need them to in order to be thrown.

    Sitting here thinking "ok while he doing all that spinny stuff with your left hand, punch him in the head with your right"...but that didnt seem to fit into the routine.
     
  3. Matt

    Matt Senior member

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    tck13 - noone mentioned boxing. i think its as good a street style as any. nothing ive ever done gives you hands like it. i would argue that street fighting almost always starts with a punch. you get that part right, not much else will really matter.

    Its funny when I go back to any of the 'eastern' style gyms these days (and admittedly its been a while) and they try to get me to use some weird guard, i fall into a boxing guard and they cant hit me.

    I on the other hand have little trouble getting a right hook around some wing chun guys 'tan sao' and getting an overhand left over his 'bong sao'

    There is nothing worse than when you do that, and sifu comes running over to tell you that 'you cant do that, you must punch like this' and youre standing there thinking 'your student is over there with an icepack and thats how he punches'

    as to BJJ - great style. Really great style. Unless there are two guys. Now in reality, if there are two guys, you are in trouble no matter what you have learned. Assume foetal position, take your licks. But with boxing (or any striking style) you may have a chance. BJJ, by definition, puts you in a lot of trouble, cos while you are down there choking the hell out of one guy, the other one can do whatever the hell he wants to you. You have no spare limbs to defend yourself without letting go of the first guy.

    Thats the obvious issue that everyone points out. The second people seem to overlook. A street is not a mat. Do you really want to do a takedown (BJJ doesnt have great takedowns btw, see freestyle wrestling for that) on to a street. Broken glass on that bar floor? Rolling around in it not advisable. Now what....
     
  4. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Matt, I actually boxed a while (if you read my original thread,) and in any streetfights I've been in, my instincts have been pretty much boxing instincts, except that I go inside a lot more than in the boxing ring, because I'm not that big a guy, and close quarter strikes like backhands, forearms, and elbows give me a lot of extra weaponry and are pretty punishing to the throat, jaw and back of the head. I'm also not that afraid of takedowns.

    In most of the more "street" styles I've studied, boxing stances or modified boxing stances (which are weaker, but allow for easier defense against kincks and low blows) are used in sparring, and the punches used in sparring are generally jabs, crosses, and hooks, with the occasional uppercut. One Kenpo strike that I really like, and that would be completely illegal in boxing, hits first with the fist (much like a cross), then the forearm, then the elbow. Now, landing that is fun.

    As for having bloody hands, I understand Zach completely, Brian. That was just part of the training. The one thing about boxing is that it doesn't really teach you to fight barehanded. And if you are too used to wraps and 2 ounce gloves, punching a guy in the face for the first time ever without any hand protection is pretty liable to get you injured. I think that this is one of the reasons I've seen some otherwise pretty decent martial artists get their asses handed to them in a brawl. I still punch a concrete post (not full strength, of course) just to make sure that I know how it feels to punch something hard with my bare hands.

    Aikido is not really that useful. It is pretty beautiful though. Most Aikido guys I know acknowledge this, although some guys are really true believers. One guy I sparred with couldn't believe he got so many jabs in the face and couldn't trap even one of them and that a spinning back fist was pretty difficult to trap as well.
     
  5. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    tck13 - noone mentioned boxing. i think its as good a street style as any. nothing ive ever done gives you hands like it. i would argue that street fighting almost always starts with a punch. you get that part right, not much else will really matter.

    Its funny when I go back to any of the 'eastern' style gyms these days (and admittedly its been a while) and they try to get me to use some weird guard, i fall into a boxing guard and they cant hit me.

    I on the other hand have little trouble getting a right hook around some wing chun guys 'tan sao' and getting an overhand left over his 'bong sao'

    There is nothing worse than when you do that, and sifu comes running over to tell you that 'you cant do that, you must punch like this' and youre standing there thinking 'your student is over there with an icepack and thats how he punches'

    as to BJJ - great style. Really great style. Unless there are two guys. Now in reality, if there are two guys, you are in trouble no matter what you have learned. Assume foetal position, take your licks. But with boxing (or any striking style) you may have a chance. BJJ, by definition, puts you in a lot of trouble, cos while you are down there choking the hell out of one guy, the other one can do whatever the hell he wants to you. You have no spare limbs to defend yourself without letting go of the first guy.

    Thats the obvious issue that everyone points out. The second people seem to overlook. A street is not a mat. Do you really want to do a takedown (BJJ doesnt have great takedowns btw, see freestyle wrestling for that) on to a street. Broken glass on that bar floor? Rolling around in it not advisable. Now what....


    Matt- I would actually rate boxing as one of the great "traditional" martial arts. like I has said - if you want to learn to defend your self fast and with a relativly low investment, I would recomend krav. in terms of something that takes more of an investment - I would agree that boxing is hugely effective. a couple of things that I like about boxing - there is no real faking it. you are hitting something, you know how hard you are hitting, you get the feel for it, which some eastern martial arts schools can try to avoid. you really do need to be fit - it takes a lot of wind to do it well. and you build up real "spirit". I would say that having good boxing skills puts you in a very good position.

    I am sorry that when I was younger it wasn't so acceptable for a nice jewish boy to box. I would like to send my son in a couple of years to learn fundementals.
     
  6. turbozed

    turbozed Senior member

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    I remember watching UFC 1 when I was a lot younger. I've always had a decent knowledge of mma stuff (took muay thai in hs). Recently I've gotten back into it and have been watching a lot of Pride/K1 (Japanese fighting circuits). I have got to say, if you have any interest in fight sports, check out Pride. It's THE show for great fights and fighters. The production quality is excellent, a lot of money is spent to get the best fighters in the world, and the rules are action-friendly.

    On a Denim streetwear note, one of my favorite fighters (fights in k1 heroes which is the mma branch of k1) is Genki Sudo who is the poster boy for Edwin Jeans. If you get the chance, youtube or google video this guy's highlight reels. This guy is super entertaining.
     
  7. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Matt, not all Eastern styles are impractical.

    My first teacher taught me 2 very important lessons. The first was an extremely low guard that is really good for block pretty much all sort of kicks and punches and makes sweeps really difficult. This guard is really low though, and those hours of sitting in horse stance are necessary if you are gong to keep it for any extended period of time. The second was his much repeated mantra "Very much go crazy. Like animal."
     
  8. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    The best fighter is the one who doesn't have to fight.
     
  9. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    The best fighter is the one who doesn't have to fight.

    Chuck Norris just has to give you a sidelong glance with one eye and you piss your pants and go unconscious immediately. IME though, sometimes a fight is inevitable. But then again, I am not the best fighter [​IMG]
     
  10. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    The best fighter is the one who doesn't have to fight.


    nobody can argue with that. Like LA Guy said - chuck norris never has to fight. but knowing how to take care of yourself can help, sometimes.
     
  11. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    The first was an extremely low guard that is really good for block pretty much all sort of kicks and punches and makes sweeps really difficult. ."

    this is really helpful, I am sorry that this is not something that I have picked up. with the nature of soft contact sparing, people neglect their low guard, because they don't get kicked in the knee or shin hard enough to cry that often, and they are more worried about blocking the impractical high kicks.
     
  12. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    this is really helpful, I am sorry that this is not something that I have picked up. with the nature of soft contact sparing, people neglect their low guard, because they don't get kicked in the knee or shin hard enough to cry that often, and they are more worried about blocking the impractical high kicks.

    The most effective move I ever learned was to look into your opponent's eyes, making him think about your fists, while breaking his knee with the sole of your shoe.
     
  13. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    The most effective move I ever learned was to look into your opponent's eyes, making him think about your fists, while breaking his knee with the sole of your shoe.

    Works pretty well, except against guys that like to use the legs, are used to leg sweeps, etc... IME, my first reaction against any kicking movement has been to draw my knee up to catch the kick and then step down to either punch, or to bring the knee to his groin or shove him to the ground, (depends on the momentary reaction). Of course, the shoulders is really what you need to watch. Plenty of dudes telegraph their punches.
     
  14. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    The most effective move I ever learned was to look into your opponent's eyes, making him think about your fists, while breaking his knee with the sole of your shoe.


    If you know how to break a knee well - you really don't need anything else.
     
  15. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    If you know how to break a knee well - you really don't need anything else.

    Nearly impossible to get a good knee strike in in tournament or even streetfighting situations though, ime.
     
  16. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    Works pretty well, except against guys that like to use the legs, are used to leg sweeps, etc... IME, my first reaction against any kicking movement has been to draw my knee up to catch the kick and then step down to either punch, or to bring the knee to his groin or shove him to the ground, (depends on the momentary reaction). Of course, the shoulders is really what you need to watch. Plenty of dudes telegraph their punches.


    I like to look at a point just above the solar plexus - like you said, people telegraph what they are doing.
     
  17. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    Nearly impossible to get a good knee strike in in tournament or even streetfighting situations though, ime.

    In a tournament, that would be a foul.

    In a streetfight, the best way to manipulate a situation in to a knee breaking opportunity is to pretend you are giving up and to turn and walk away. It is as your opponent charges after you that his knee is exposed.
     
  18. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    Nearly impossible to get a good knee strike in in tournament or even streetfighting situations though, ime.


    that has not been my experience, on the street. my game plan has been to focus on a fast attack of strikes to the face with splayed fingers and the heel of the hand, tiger mouth and forearms to the throat, to set up sweeps and stompes to the knees, instep and ankle. I have never been in conflict with anybody who was both really good and prepared, but I have had good luck with knees.
     
  19. Tck13

    Tck13 Senior member

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    Are you living in Pasadena? If so, on the north side of Colorado, just a couple of blocks east of Lake, there is a Machado brothers Brazilian Jiujitsu place (not where I trained, btw) that is pretty good. There are actually a number of pretty goo martial arts schools in the area, but a lot of them (I trained in a few) are really testoserone filled (You can feel the teacher just wanting to shout "Mercy is for the weak! In this dojo, we do not train to be merciful!" and quite a few are filled with gangbanger types. Surprisingly, in full contact sparring, a lot of the tatted up, roided out types crumble pretty quickly (um, must be the smal balls). On the other hand, some pretty innocuous looking dudes can really hand it to you. There was one guy, just a little heavier than I was (I was about 165 at the time - over 10 pounds heavier than now) and really wiry, but a really unassuming guy, who had a punch like a sledgehammer. We were sparring, and he caught me right on the jaw. I had dropped my guard to lure him in, and he got in, but not the way I'd intended and I went down hard. Ouch. Only time I've been knocked out (took me at least 20 seconds to get to my feet) outside a boxing ring.

    I agree completely. I played ice hockey for about 20 years and I could never tell by what someone looked like before getting into a fight. I've had my ass kicked by short unassuming, thinner guys and given some good beatings to 6'2" very intimidating players. One can't tell another's ability to fight by the way they look.

    I also boxed for about a year or so and the loudmouth, tattooed, I can't wait to kick your ass guys went out with a punch.

    I didn't get very far with boxing. I think it was the teacher. I am interested in learning the art of fighting and self defense, not because fighting is my favorite thing to do...

    The teacher just seemed to want me to go into the ring and just fight. I am much more comfortable when I know what I am doing. At least teach me what I am supposed to do, I am not one for getting thrown into the pool to learn to swim. Especially if someone is punching me in the meantime.

    Training for boxing was the best workout I've ever had.

    globetrotter I've never heard of the style you mentioned. I'll have to check it out...
     
  20. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    In a tournament, that would be a foul.

    In a streetfight, the best way to manipulate a situation in to a knee breaking opportunity is to pretend you are giving up and to turn and walk away. It is as your opponent charges after you that his knee is exposed.


    This option also provide protection to your own knees and maximizes your kicking power (in this position, you would be delivering a rear kick).
     

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