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Fashion and morality

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by esquire., Feb 12, 2004.

  1. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Ah... this thread started off with the potential for stupidity, (after switching tags at a store and supporting from a repressive regime are two different classes of action, and really shouldn't be on the same list) and now the stupidity has come on strong.  

    Actually, I chose to ignore your post because it was stupid and didn't merit my attention.  You seem to be suggesting that attention to high fashion and personal and institutional morality are somehow incompatible; but you've offered no compelling evidence to show that, nor in fact any evidence at all.  

    And your questions about the hypothetical case are not sound.  To wit, and I'm borrowing freely from you here:

    "Ok here is my question.

    Suppose you buy a" piece of pie.
    "Next month you open the newspaper and find out:
    1. Your"

    baker

    "died in a car accident in his Ferrari.  He was on coke (in essence bought with your very $$)"

    I suppose by this reasoning that I should never eat a tasty baked good again.

    *Edited for a grammatical mistake*
     
  2. Steve B.

    Steve B. Senior member

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    OK, Guys...

    Like the discussions of ethics. Don't like the ad hominems I'm beginning to see posted.

    Please read the posting policy if you're unsure about this.

    Thanks.
     
  3. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    Ca-ca- can't we all get along.

    When I started this thread, I wasn't trolling for something like this. I just wanted to see the intersection of fashion and morality, how they might influence each other.

    So, I'll answer my original thread. Yes, switching tags is stealing regardless of the store's mark-up. First of all, clothing is not a necessity. (collective gasp of horror in this forum). You don't have to buy it if you don't like the price. And, stores have a mark-up to pay for the item from the manufacturer, to pay rent, to pay their employees, etc... And, the reason it has a higher mark-up than say washing machines is because clothing stores have to carry so many diff sizes for each item, whereas washing machines don't have this problem.
     
  4. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    Blasphemy...... Forget ad-hominems Steve, this guy is outright heretical now. Next he'll dare to suggest that cashmere isn't a necessity. Now I am deeply wounded.

    Time to add anti-sartorialism to the things disallowed on the forum Steve, to even suggest that fine menswear is not as essential as the air we breathe is totally uncalled for.
     
  5. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    When I say necessity, I mean a necessity to survive like how we need air and water to survive.

    We can still live, although a uncomfortable existence, if we still wear a poorly constructed suit instead of a Brioni.
     
  6. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    When I say anything, and I do mean anything, it comes with a little sticker that says "Caution, sarcasm may be closer than it appears".

    First you say clothing is not a necessity, then you take me seriously... whatever will we do with you?


    Get the torches and find a rope boys. :)
     
  7. Alias

    Alias Senior member

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    Alright, I'll stop with the flames. I think it's very possible to combine both high fashion with morality, and even encouraged. After all, being well-dressed is certainly a mark of a gentleman, but more important is his attitude. The whole concept of "noblesse oblige" comes to mind, and it's something that I think is worth aspiring to.

    Now, would a gentleman (or even someone with an ounce of sense in his head) do something like switch tags on clothing? This is what kids do to bags of potato chips when the store employee accidentally left the price tag dispenser behind. Would someone who aspires to look and dress well really have any merit to his efforts if he considers his primary goal to make people jealous of him? I sure wouldn't think so.
     
  8. vero_group

    vero_group Senior member

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    No, clothes have a higher mark-up because people are willing to pay more for clothes versus how much it costs to manufacture the clothes, plain and simple. Clothing stores do not "set" prices -- the price at which a piece of clothing sells is determined by the buyer. If the buyer doesn't like the price, he walks out of the store empty-handed yet wallet-full. Sure, the clothing store may put a price label on the item that reflects the mark-up they HOPE to get, but in the end, they may only get a lower mark-up after the price has been reduced multiple times and a buyer finally comes along and determines the price at which it will sell. Successful clothing stores carry many different sizes BECAUSE they can afford to do so given the mark-ups we buyers allow them to earn. These successful clothing stores must be doing something (selling a style, a brand, a shopping experience, a level of service, a lifestyle image we want to fit our psyches into, etc.) that we are willing to reward them by paying a higher mark-up. It's harder to fit washing machines into a style, a brand, a lifestyle, etc. but manufacturers sure are trying. There are many washing machine brands with panache (Maytag, Bosch, etc.) that cost no more to manufacture than a vanilla-brand Kenmore or GE washing machine. The difference is in the marketing and the resulting mark-up we reward the marketers for doing such a good job of convincing us of our need for a particular branded washing machine. They can get pretty decent mark-ups too -- they just have to work harder to get it. My point is, a price is NOT determined by the costs incurred by the seller to sell the item. Rather, the market determines the prices and it's up to the seller to determine what kind of costs he or she wants to incur to make a sufficient profit that makes being in business worth the while in the first place. When I sell clothes on eBay, the mark-up I receive is 100% determined by the buyer. *I* am the powerless victim in this brutal, uncaring, and unfair marketplace. Please cry for me. [​IMG]
     
  9. RIDER

    RIDER Senior member

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    Vero Group - Not really. I buy for my stores and I do 'set' prices. If I did'nt, I would simply be in the auction business. Since we offer service and selection and up to date goods that we tailor for our customers, we need to set a price. If something does not sell at our 'regular' price, we do not take away the service part of our equation as we lower the price throughout the season. I better not buy the same thing again however. Service is expensive and very much factors into how much a store sells it's goods for. Also, we carry sizes not because we can afford to, to be considered an elite store we must. That's how we serve customers. You are absolutely correct when you say that the market determines the final price, however, realize that if the final price is not satisfactory to the retailer that retailer will not offer that item again. It does not take long in our business for us all to get off of an item if it does sell.
     
  10. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Vero_group and RIDER,

    I'm pretty sure that you are both right. Part of the initial markup for luxury goods comes from considering that a fraction of the stock will eventually be sold at a lower price, or be overwise liquidated.

    The buyers I know tell me that in order to be an elite and leading edge store, they have to take risks, try to predict and to some degree shape trends. Sometimes they fail, thus the pink mummus (sp?) for men lingering on the clearance rack. The higher markup at these stores reflect this, and is the price of privilege.
     

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