Fabric brands (Loro Piana, Scabal, Dunhill) question

[Alter]

I went to my local (Osaka) custom tailor today to order up a new summer suit.

I have narrowed it down to some similar tropical weight super 100's in pure wool (no mohair, cashmere, etc.) by

Loro Piana
Scabal
Dunhill

I know this is limited information but which would you choose? Is it possible to say that one is better than another simply based on name?

Just for conversation sake: I went for 2.5 button, with vest, flat front pants, double vented. Osaka prices are pretty good these days- around 650US. It is MTM but they will do multiple revisions if you aren't satisfied. Also, they actually do all of the work here in Osaka (as opposed to most places that have the work done in China, etc.)

Any insights appreciated. Thanks.

 

[whoopee]

Definitely Scabal. Dunhill is almost definitely a licensed name. Loro Piana suitings are notoriously poor-wearing and flimsy. Scabal are more famous for their luxury cloths, but the standards and super 100-120s are very good, too. 2 ply.

 

[Matt]

ppl speak very highly of Scabal - how it sits versus your particular LP I dont know. Dunhill, Ive never even seen cloth (fakefromchinaalert)

Is that 650 incl cloth? If so, that is very very cheap for Japan, figuring the Scabal cloth has to run a hundred a meter, suit with vest will take you 4.5 meters or thereabouts, so thats $450-ish before the guy touches his sewing kit - $200 in tailoring fee sounds impossibly cheap for Japan.

 

[Alter]

Originally Posted by m@T

ppl speak very highly of Scabal - how it sits versus your particular LP I dont know. Dunhill, Ive never even seen cloth (fakefromchinaalert)

Is that 650 incl cloth? If so, that is very very cheap for Japan, figuring the Scabal cloth has to run a hundred a meter, suit with vest will take you 4.5 meters or thereabouts, so thats $450-ish before the guy touches his sewing kit - $200 in tailoring fee sounds impossibly cheap for Japan.

No Dunhill fabric? That is interesting (and somewhat disconcerting). I will check it out more the next time I am there. Maybe I confused the name? It may also have been marked as a different maker (" Somebody...for Dunhill" type of thing). To be honest I wasn't too keen on the colour so I didn't look so closely.

That price does include the fabric. He uses end of bolt stuff from old seasons; nothing comes from a book. According to some of my Japanese contacts the place is very reputable. They are in the heart of the business district of Osaka and have a lot of customers from the keiretsu firms around here. I was told the actual work is pieced out to smaller tailoring shops and various old grandmothers (that work under the table for low wages) in the area.

I have four suits from them already and I am very pleased. The first three used cheaper wool (Italian or English) from less known brands and one is Scabal. I don't have any other Scabal suits to compare it with but the fabric is nice. I would be shocked if it isn't authentic (but I suppose it is possible).

Keep in mind that you can get suits made of Italian fabric (often Reda or something similar) MTM for less than $200US around here (work done in China). The prices of custom suits is relatively low; one of the benefits of the extended recession. Also, the market is relatively big in that more people wear suits here on a daily basis.

I should also mention that the listed price for the suit with vest and working buttons would be around $1000US. I'm a repeat customer, many members of my firm go there, and I am good negotiator

But your suspicions have me wary...I will look into it deeper from some Japanese friends that seem to know about these things.

 

[Matt]

sorry, didnt mean to be alarmist at all - and god if there is one thing I love its a bargain in Asia!

but as a point of reference, I just returned from my tailor an hour ago and have bought what is essentially the most expensive suit Vietnam can muster. Four hundred and five dollars.

In that case it was about $340 in wool (no vest) and about $65 in tailoring.

Rough calculations follow...add a meter or so for the vest = $500. Add in another, say $10 for the extra tailoring fee and then my total for the same suit would be $510 or thereabouts, with about $75 in tailoring.

For Japan to be only 2.5 times Vietnam's tailoring cost (or thereabouts) seems very low - I would have guessed 7-10 times more expensive at a minimum.

I have no doubt your rent per meter is more than 2.5x mine. Very well paid staff here make $500 a month....lets not compare that to Japan!

Anyhow not arguing with you at all, just framing my point as it really seems like a great buy, and if you have been happy with their work before, then that is absolutely all that matters, so go for it.

 

[Alter]

M@t,

Congrats on the new suit!

I think another key factor is that, despite the Scabal name, we are clearly talking about fabrics that are on the low end of their product line.

And another factor I just realized: the exchange rate on Japanese currency vs. US is excellent these days. This doesn't benefit me as I am paid in yen but it does skew the amount that I quoted.

To be more specific, the price would be 72,000 yen for the Loro Piana or 750,000 for the Scabal. List price for either would be around 100,000 yen.

 

[Fritz]

Could it possibly have been Dormeuil fabric instead of Dunhill? Just wondering, because Dormeuil is a legit cloth brand.

 

[Alter]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Could it possibly have been Dormeuil fabric instead of Dunhill? Just wondering, because Dormeuil is a legit cloth brand.

I was feeling a little scatter-brained today so it's possible. I will drop by that shop next week and report back.

 

[Alter]

OK, so I finally checked out the Dunhill fabric situation.

There is a licensed line of suiting fabric that is sold as Alfred Dunhill Ltd. I believe that it is only sold in Japan. It is labelled as "Made in England" but I do not know who the actual manufacturer is. According to my tailor guy, it is good stuff; but of course he would say that.

The label looks like this:
Attachment 216


I ended up ordering the Loro Piana because I liked the design of fabric better than the others. I tried the suit on today; pants and vest were great, but the jacket was way too boxy- too wide shoulders and, of course, the sleeves were too long. They will try again and I will check it out in a couple of weeks.

 

[Ed355]

Keep in mind that you can get suits made of Italian fabric (often Reda or something similar) MTM for less than $200US around here (work done in China). The prices of custom suits is relatively low; one of the benefits of the extended recession. Also, the market is relatively big in that more people wear suits here on a daily basis.

$200 is really cheap. I don't think you can get a suit made in the tourist shops in Hong Kong (including Raja Fashions) for that much.

The Dunhill fabric looks quite coarse. I also doubt its authenticity.

 

[NewYorkBuck]

Loro Piana is 2x1 - it will not last. Scabal I think is 2x2. Prob the way to go.

 

[Alter]

I picked up my suit today. They got the alterations right; nice soft shoulders and the sleeve length looks perfect. Poor job of pattern matching on the pinstripes, though

I will try to post some photos for some feedback. I am sure there are areas for improvement. I went with flat front pants that are slimmer fitting than I normally wear. I think I will need to get used to that. It seems to throw off the balance of the jacket, as I am fairly large in the shoulders and chest area.

I ended up getting the Loro Piana fabric, despite some negative comments. Basically, I liked the fabric design better than than other choices. I will see how well it wears.

If you're curious the fabric is from the Loro Piana Zelander series. 100% New Zealand Merino wool. Not sure of the super count but think it is either 100 or 120. It feels soft to the touch, with a nice drape; a little elasticity.