Extended Shoulder Supremacy

[bdavro23]

Yes but quarters should be a touch more open.

Noted, thanks for the feedback

 

[bdavro23]

This isn’t your actual completed jacket right? It’s like way too big

Not my jacket...

This is from a suit I made for a friend of mine who is 6'4", 325 pounds with a 56" chest. I could fit my entire family in this jacket!

 

[emptym]

D, you usually rail against such "classic" rules and standards of beauty, so I'm surprised by your stance here.

@gdl203 started a helpful thread comparing extended and regular shoulders. Here's the OP:

happy hanoukwanzmas everyone

which cut looks better to you on me (or looks better on me to you) ?

 

[9thsymph]

I'm currently rocking the double-threat, water fall sleeve head + extended droopy shoulder and I dig. I know it's not for everyone, but I love it for super casual days...

 

[9thsymph]

And here's a more structured, but still soft, extended shoulder:

 

[9thsymph]

In any case, I'm a big fan of the extended shoulder, be it the more structured and clean version, or less structured and droopy type.

 

[bdavro23]

And here's a more structured, but still soft, extended shoulder:

This is nice, I like it. I also think the cut suits you, or is at least flattering. Also, I'll be in Chicago first weekend in August. Thinking of trying to do a meet up, though nothing planned at this point.

 

[aristoi bcn]

Different Neapolitan tailors will do different shoulders, although since it's bespoke, I'm sure they can change things at the margins. I've never bought anything from Rubinacci, but Mariano and his customers tell me they do an extended shoulder by default. You can see this on Mariano's own jackets, most of Luca's, and the few Rubi outfits posted here (such as Iammatt).

I just had a fitting with Solito yesterday, and while most tailors will cut shoulders a little big for the fittings with the expectation they'll take them in, I thought yesterday's coats looked pretty good as they were. That said, Luigi wanted to take the shoulders in about 1 cm from both sides. That seemed like a lot to me, but I figured I would just go with his house style for the first order.

Luigi tells me that he makes jackets with a 1 ply shoulder pad. Supposedly, the only other tailors who do this in Naples are Pirozzi and the older Fomorsa (Mario). And supposedly, Panico and Rubianacci use slightly more padding -- and they'll extend shoulders. I admit, this sorta feels like the kind of thing you hear from a lot of Neapolitan tailors (mine is the softest, hardest to execute, only available from this 1930s tailor and me). For a real breakdown of "house construction," I would only trust @jefferyd, but I'm also fine with going with a tailor's word until someone does a suit dissection. FWIW, I believe Steed uses 1.5 ply. The Solito jacket I felt at yesterday's fitting was a little softer (another client's, not mine).

Luigi himself wears no padding whatsoever, so the shoulder ends right at the bone. He has very square shoulders though, so I think the style looks good on him.

He also told me that spalla camicia isn't possible with an extended shoulder. I didn't really understand this, tbh (maybe Jeffery can clarify). As I understand it, spalla camicia is about how the sleeve is inserted into the sleevehead, and some tailors use wadding to clean up the waterfall effect. I have some spalla camicia jackets with padding inside. Rubi will do a spalla camicia shoulder, so if they'll also extend it, I assume it's technically possible. Maybe this is the drooping you see on Mariano's stuff.

In any case, Luigi said he doesn't extend shoulders because they would collapse at the end, as he only uses a 1 ply pad.

I'll post some photos of natural shoulders later. I agree, I think the old StyleForum favorite was a very soft, "natural" shoulder that ended closer to the bone. The friend of mine and I were rehashing this same debate, and he sent some StyleForum examples that looked quite good.

I have neapolitan jackets with extended shoulder and spalla camicia in cashmere and Harris (no padding nor waddind) and Mock Leno (very light wadding) and none of them collapse. Maybe the Mock Leno just a little.

 

[dieworkwear]

D, you usually rail against such "classic" rules and standards of beauty, so I'm surprised by your stance here.

That's true. I suppose my real stance is:

1. There's no real definition for extended shoulders. Some things don't fall right on the shoulder bone, but I think can be reasonably described as a natural shoulder.

2. I'm mostly skeptical of sport coats that wear like cardigans. I just don't think they have any shape to them. This is purely in the realm of CM. I think it's fine in an SWD fit because the entire outfit is playing around with non-traditional notions of aesthetics.

3. There are some guys who look great in uber soft, deconstructed jackets that fall right on the shoulder bone. Graeme/ GuidoWongolini is an example. Patrick Johnson at PJT is another. Also lots of photos of street style guys and old Italian dudes.

But for that to work, I think you need something. It helps to have an athletic figure, be extremely handsome, or just have a kind of "coolness" about you. Like Yasuto Kamoshita looks good in everything because he's just cool, for lack of a better word.

For most guys though, who may not have that sensibility (yet) or don't have flattering proportions, extended shoulders are just so much more flattering. It's like a wearing shell -- it forces you into a silhouette. And it references a very traditional notion of male beauty that everyone understands (broad shoulders, nipped waists, V-shaped figure, etc).

IMO, this is like with everything in men's style. You don't need to follow traditional rules, but if you lack a personal sense of style or don't have certain proportions, you can follow some basic rules and be assured you look good.

I also like tailoring that looks sexy and traditionally masculine, and extended shoulders for me just create that look.

 

[dieworkwear]

Graeme was really great in this kind of tailoring, but most guys wearing this kind of coat won't look like Graeme.

Patrick Johnson, who made some of Graeme's suits, also looks really good in this silhouette. But again, he also just looks really cool. I met him once and checked out his jackets. IIRC there's really nothing in the shoulder.

Most guys who wear that stuff though just look ... like a pear.

 

[dieworkwear]

Some other natural shoulders that look good, but aren't the uber-soft, narrow kind.

 

[emptym]

1. There's no real definition ...

2. I'm mostly skeptical ...

3. ...deconstructed ...

Postmodern cred restored.

 

[comrade]

"Postmodern cred restored"

I am not so sure. Perhaps if we consider the apparently
endless variety of shoulder constructions as just so many
fractals, we might begin to impose some order on this
chaos.

 

[comrade]

3. ...deconstructed ..

Mark, don't you mean "unconstructed"

 

[joacimbylehn]

It’s funny, I wouldn’t have called pic 2 and 4 natural shoulders, but come to think of it I have jackets/suits with similar looking shoulders in my closet and they are indeed super soft.