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Everyday Carry (Picture Edition)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by tomorrowstars, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    How is personal protection "nonessential"? And tell me, how is it glorified?

    really, there have been dozens of similar discussions here on the same subject, and I didn't have any intention of opening that can of worms here, but

    1. I don't believe that personal gun ownership really helps in self protection

    2. even if it did, the vast majority of gun owners have much more arms than they really need to protect themselves - so if a person told me he had a single 9 mm and a 20 gauge shotgun to cover all his personal protection needs, I'd feel a lot more confident in his owning weapons to protect himself, rather than his having 20 fancy pistols, but that is just me.
     
  2. Boognish

    Boognish Well-Known Member

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    yeah, but private sector theft, and the black market, are both side effects of a rampant gun culture.

    Black markets thrive with or without gun culture.
     
  3. Teger

    Teger Senior member

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    Black markets thrive with or without gun culture.

    the guns that populate the "black market" are manufactured to meet the demands of legal gun ownership. thus, if legal gun ownership was eliminated, production of guns would drop, and there would be far fewer guns to be stolen/purchased illegally.
     
  4. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    I carry a swiss army knife, mad afraid of black people nahm sayin guys
     
  5. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    Black markets thrive with or without gun culture.

    like Teger said - if there was little or no supply, the black market would dry up. legal citizens buy guns that are stolen that are then sold to criminals, that is the chain of supply in the US.
     
  6. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    @teger

    isnt that the argument for any controversial substance like drugs or alcohol?

    while production might decrease violence might not due to a thriving black market and with illegalization comes less control over said substance and much more funding is required to regulate it
     
  7. Boognish

    Boognish Well-Known Member

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    really, there have been dozens of similar discussions here on the same subject, and I didn't have any intention of opening that can of worms here, but

    1. I don't believe that personal gun ownership really helps in self protection

    2. even if it did, the vast majority of gun owners have much more arms than they really need to protect themselves - so if a person told me he had a single 9 mm and a 20 gauge shotgun to cover all his personal protection needs, I'd feel a lot more confident in his owning weapons to protect himself, rather than his having 20 fancy pistols, but that is just me.


    1. That's your personal opinion. You're entitled to it, and that's fine.

    2. Would you say the same about guys that have 50 pairs of shoes? What's the magic number according to GT? I enjoy shooting and competition, and therefore I have more than enough toys to cover my needs. I even have obsolete historical pieces that never leave the safe. I've also attended many carbine and handgun classes. Are you implying that ownership of more than two guns equals crazy?

    I've read some of your posts in the past (long time lurker of these boards, but just joined recently), and they all smell of elitist sentiment.
     
  8. Teger

    Teger Senior member

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    no, because guns and drugs aren't analogous. first, the level of sophistication to manufacture gun isn't equivalent to growing marijuana or poppy plants. second, several times in our society and culture we've conceded that abuse of a product necessitates restricting or removing it, regardless of who is abusing it and what form the abuse takes. the example that most readily comes to mind is drugs with ephedrin. anyway, crane et al are going to reply that guns are a unique situation because the right to own them is explicitly enumerated in the bill of rights, and i would reply that the stakes are so much greater in this debate.

    anyway it's a circular argument. "I need a gun to protect myself" "from what?" "from other people with guns!"
     
  9. Teger

    Teger Senior member

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    1. That's your personal opinion. You're entitled to it, and that's fine.

    2. Would you say the same about guys that have 50 pairs of shoes? What's the magic number according to GT? I enjoy shooting and competition, and therefore I have more than enough toys to cover my needs. I even have obsolete historical pieces that never leave the safe. I've also attended many carbine and handgun classes. Are you implying that ownership of more than two guns equals crazy?

    I've read some of your posts in the past (long time lurker of these boards, but just joined recently), and they all smell of elitist sentiment.


    austin powers movies aside, shoes don't have the potential to kill people. that's the key difference.
     
  10. Boognish

    Boognish Well-Known Member

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    austin powers movies aside, shoes don't have the potential to kill people. that's the key difference.

    "Potential." That's key. My car has the potential to run someone over. My kitchen knife has the potential to slice someone up. My baseball bat has the potential, well, you get it.

    We should ban everything. For the children.
     
  11. Teger

    Teger Senior member

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    "Potential." That's key. My car has the potential to run someone over. My kitchen knife has the potential to slice someone up. My baseball bat has the potential, well, you get it.

    We should ban everything. For the children.


    this is such a specious argument, and i hope you know that. guns are explicitly manufactured to kill. also your argument is basically: 'well lots of things kill people, so we shouldn't do anything about any specific case!' and it's absurd. one has nothing to do with the other.
     
  12. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    yes, there is that remote possibility that a person who hangs out in a custom clothing forum is an elitist.




    2. Would you say the same about guys that have 50 pairs of shoes? .


    well, you get some objective use out of shoes, and they can't kill people, so, no, I don't feel that way.
     
  13. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    no, because guns and drugs aren't analogous. first, the level of sophistication to manufacture gun isn't equivalent to growing marijuana or poppy plants. second, several times in our society and culture we've conceded that abuse of a product necessitates restricting or removing it, regardless of who is abusing it and what form the abuse takes. the example that most readily comes to mind is drugs with ephedrin. anyway, crane et al are going to reply that guns are a unique situation because the right to own them is explicitly enumerated in the bill of rights, and i would reply that the stakes are so much greater in this debate.

    anyway it's a circular argument. "I need a gun to protect myself" "from what?" "from other people with guns!"


    i would say that drugs with ephederin (which are still available, you just need to sign for it. eg bronkaid) were wrongly eliminated because a few overzealous people abused it and made newspaper headlines.

    i agree with you that drugs and guns aren't analogous, but i would say that even if manufacturing guns are much more sophisticated than marijuana and poppy plants this doesnt wholly eliminate the problem of black markets. entry might be higher, but if stakes are high enough people would still take it and find ways to skirt the problem (move manufacturing overseas, etc) in a way that might be more detrimental than the original problem.
     
  14. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    i would say that drugs with ephederin (which are still available, you just need to sign for it. eg bronkaid) were wrongly eliminated because a few overzealous people abused it and made newspaper headlines.

    i agree with you that drugs and guns aren't analogous, but i would say that even if manufacturing guns are much more sophisticated than marijuana and poppy plants this doesnt wholly eliminate the problem of black markets. entry might be higher, but if stakes are high enough people would still take it and find ways to skirt the problem (move manufacturing overseas, etc) in a way that might be more detrimental than the original problem.


    true - but it would push the price of illegal guns way way up. if the only way to get a gun illegally in the US was to smuggle one it, the price would be thousands of dollars each. maybe tens of thousands. less people would use them. less people would die.
     
  15. tween_spirit

    tween_spirit Senior member

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    all this gun talk reminds me of a Harper's article from a few months back called Happiness is a Worn Gun. This quoted bit is pretty much the premise for anyone that wants to read it (will only take a few minutes and it presents some pretty interesting views): Finally, last year, under the guise of “wanting to learn what this is all about,” but really wanting to live the gun life myself, I began the process of getting a carry permit. Google brought up this post with a link to a PDF of the article I downloaded it and the file is safe and clean so no worries there.
     
  16. brad-t

    brad-t Senior member

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    You help design toys (or something remotely similar/unimportant). /thread for you.
    What does this have to do with anything? How can you possibly frame this as a bad thing? Also, Teger's right. It doesn't matter how experienced you are. The USA has a higher firearm violence rate than any other "civilized" nation. It's because that US citizens have completely misconstrued the intentions of the second amendment and have continued to mindlessly abide by it without context that firearms are so ubiquitous in the US. In turn, they are easier to obtain and commit crimes with. Look at a country like Japan, with incredibly strict gun control laws, and almost NO firearm violence. I can almost understand people who carry a single, small gun like your mini revolver for self protection. I don't agree with it, but I can at least understand it on some level. But two? Two handguns? You would frame two handguns as a necessity for self protection? Come on.
     
  17. Teger

    Teger Senior member

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    the thing I find so ridiculous is the climate of fear and suspicion that some people live in. are you so petrified of your life that you need to always carry two guns with you? as I said, I live in a much, much worse area than you do crane's, and I feel perfectly fine. I'm sure your reply will be 'well, I have them because it's better safe than sorry', but such a reply ignores the horrific consequences of that attitude - consequences directly reflected in the thousands of people that die from gun violence every year.
     
  18. brad-t

    brad-t Senior member

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    To be fair, if I was in Montana I'd want to carry a gun too.
     
  19. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Senior member

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    To be fair, if I was in Montana I'd want to carry a gunblade too.
    Yessssss.
     
  20. randomkoreandude

    randomkoreandude Senior member

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    I carry a swiss army knife, mad afraid of black people nahm sayin guys

    LOL
     

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