etiquette question

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

People who are telling you how wrong you are are either A) never been in the situation, so they can't realistically tell you how they'd react, or B) too much of a pushover to get what they really want.
IMO, you're way too young and inexperienced yourself to make these kind of statements. (by the way, you've been making a lot of definitive statements in the very short time you've been on this board... is that your signature move?)

I'm neither A or B and found myself in many similar situations when traveling both on a budget and in more expensive trips. Proper communication and politeness IME yield better results than yelling at people, insulting them or physically assaulting them. Different personality types I guess...

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by gdl203

Proper communication and politeness IME yield better results than yelling at people, insulting them or physically assaulting them. Different personality types I guess...


very often, yes. I have a pretty good system

1. I ask nicely - I can actually be pretty charming
2. I say "I really don't want to yell, and you really don't want me to yell, so do what I say"
3. I speak sharply, not really yelling
4. I yell


it is actually extremly rare for me to get past stage 2, and then it is usually stage 3. maybe once every couple of years I get to stage 4.

keep in mind, I spend maybe 100 plus days a year in the 3rd world, and a total of about 150 days a year in hotels, 200 plus legs flying a year. and, for the most part, I get very good service and things go very smoothly for me. so I would say the system works pretty well.

 

[gdl203]

Thank G-d, I've only seen you in stage 1, GT !

Sounds like you went three times to stage 4 and once to "stage 5" (attendant incident) on just one trip! Maybe Mexico is really not for you after all!

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by gdl203

IMO, you're way too young and inexperienced yourself to make these kind of statements. (by the way, you've been making a lot of definitive statements in the very short time you've been on this board... is that your signature move?)

I'm neither A or B and found myself in many similar situations when traveling both on a budget and in more expensive trips. Proper communication and politeness IME yield better results than yelling at people, insulting them or physically assaulting them. Different personality types I guess...

To your list, I would add that a good attitude and the knowledge that you can still have a great time even when things constantly go wrong are necessary for enjoyable travel.

It really isn't about A or B above, it is about deciding what is worth pursuing. Getting your way while raising your temper rarely makes for a fun vacation, and the juice is often not worth the squeeze.

 

[johnapril]

I still regret not bribing the customs post officer at the Pakse border post to stamp me out before lunch was over. His family probably could have used the money.

 

[Fabienne]

Originally Posted by Merlino

His wife is also entitled to her opinion but, and I honestly don't wish to generalise here, I have experienced that women would rather get screwed over in matters like this in order to keep the peace than to stand by their principles and get into an argument.

You haven't met me: I'm a terror when it comes to putting people in their place. In the US, they're typically not used to such behavior, I always stand my ground, be it at a restaurant for bad service, on the phone with a customer rep or with annoying sales people. Probably bad manners, but I will result to being rude when faced with someone who just won't take a hint.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by Fabienne

You haven't met me: I'm a terror when it comes to putting people in their place. In the US, they're typically not used to such behavior, I always stand my ground, be it at a restaurant for bad service, on the phone with a customer rep or with annoying sales people. Probably bad manners, but I will result to being rude when faced with someone who just won't take a hint.

I feel sorry for you. I am usually too busy enjoying the people with whom I am dining to worry about making a stink about service as long as it is not belligerent. Sometimes I wonder why people don't put enjoying life higher on their list of priorities.

 

[Hard2Fit]

Originally Posted by iammatt

I feel sorry for you. I am usually too busy enjoying the people with whom I am dining to worry about making a stink about service as long as it is not belligerent. Sometimes I wonder why people don't put enjoying life higher on their list of priorities.

Completely agree. I have little understanding for bad service though. Having worked in customer service and retail in my earlier years I know that good service is really not that hard to provide. Rather than make it an issue during the meal I simply take it out of the tip. I also make sure to mention it to the server and/or host on my way out the door.

 

[lakewolf]

Agree with you completely matt...

When it comes to defend your rights or something about serious business I stand sure on my ground and can be a real dick.

But when it is about hollidays, enjoy yourself with your family and friends I go to the easy way.

It is more what you lose being a dick on such situations.

 

[Roland Loden of Germany]

I hope some here are not traveling on their holidays with a blood pressure meter. I suggest next time rolling a special Mexican enchilada with local coriander.

 

[Merlino]

Originally Posted by Roland Loden of Germany

I suggest next time rolling a special Mexican enchilada with local coriander.

Let's hope they serve good quality enchiladas with local coriander at the tourist trap then

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by iammatt

I feel sorry for you. I am usually too busy enjoying the people with whom I am dining to worry about making a stink about service as long as it is not belligerent. Sometimes I wonder why people don't put enjoying life higher on their list of priorities.

for the most part, I agree with you. I will put up with a lot, in terms of service. where I won't comprimise usually comes down to my ability to achieve what I set out to do - by that I mean issues that limit my ability to get around. for instance, if I have planned on traveling to a certain place by a certain hour and something screws that up, or if I flew to Mexico City to be at two sites and somebody is trying to keep me from getting to those two sites, then I will get active.

the other thing is that if something will substantially make something less comfortable for myself or my family- for instance, having my 6 year old fly seperated.

but, yeah, it actually takes a lot to get me riled up, in terms of service.

 

[CafeRacer]

The last time I went to Mexico for a week I experienced pretty much lousy service across the board. If you go anywhere touristy I think you can pretty much except them to screw you over (but in their defense a lot of people just come for a week and totally trash the city/treat the natives poorly). If you think you can complain and save some money I say go for it, just be safe. Mexico city isn't the safest place in the world for tourists, especially on the outskirts.

I actually had pretty good luck complaining to the travel agency when I got back to the states. They refunded 500 per person (6 of us) so the savings was pretty substantial. If you went through an agency just send them a polite letter documenting everything that wasn't right. Chances are they want your repeat business and have more power than the hotel, cab driver, restaurant owner, etc to actually make it right for you.

I always ran into cab drivers that wouldn't take you where you wanted to go in China. Sometimes it's not far away enough, sometimes too close and other times they say they simply can't go down certain roads. You don't tip over there though so not to worry! It is easy to laugh it off and be patient when you are single but traveling around with a wife and three kids would definitely cause a lot of stress.

 

[EL72]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

for the most part, I agree with you. I will put up with a lot, in terms of service. where I won't comprimise usually comes down to my ability to achieve what I set out to do - by that I mean issues that limit my ability to get around. for instance, if I have planned on traveling to a certain place by a certain hour and something screws that up, or if I flew to Mexico City to be at two sites and somebody is trying to keep me from getting to those two sites, then I will get active.

the other thing is that if something will substantially make something less comfortable for myself or my family- for instance, having my 6 year old fly seperated.

but, yeah, it actually takes a lot to get me riled up, in terms of service.

I probably react like you in many situations but I also agree with Matt that being flexible and accepting that things will invariably go wrong when travelling is critical to an enjoyable experience.

The thing to remember is that different people react very differently and have very different levels of tolerance when it comes to confrontation and conflict. So if I get upset at some service provider because they screwed and refuse to help or do something about it, I can be demanding, forceful and confrontational one minute and I will have completely forgotten 5 minutes later and it will in no way affect my ability to enjoy myself the rest of the day/meal...

My wife OTOH hates this and she will be thinking about the incident the rest of the day and it will impede her ability to enjoy herself later (in general, I think women could stand to greatly benefit from selective short-term memory loss or amnesia

). So I usually refrain from making a fuss for her sake rather than for mine because it does not interfere with my enjoyment at all.

For some people, not saying anything or letting it slide may cause them to not enjoy themselves so everyone is different and I don't think you can generalize but rather need to be aware of the personality of your travel/meal companions to not make anyone feel uneasy.

 

[NorCal]

My 2 cents. Yes you were rude but were well within your rights. You recognized that these guys need to suplment their income with tips and kickbacks and offered to pay him your own kickback in place of one that he would recieve from the taco place. It was his choice to ignore you and basically treat you like a captive.
Seeing as you had places to go and things to see there is no reason to suffer through a buch of fake crap to satisfy someones hustle.
I know that for me, missing a event, eating a crappy meal, and overpaying would make me rip **** and do a lot to ruin my afternoon, much more so than having a bit of a tiff with the locals.
If I say take me to place x, you damm well better take me there, paticularly if I am willing to pay extra for the service and am on a time frame.