etiquette question

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

I think that you are letting the fact that you don't like me cloud your judgment.

Probably.

I think you were right by the way, ripping off people and kickbacks are not a "˜cultural thing'.

Jon.

 

[teddieriley]

Problem is, you gave him a choice. I dont' know whether you felt compelled or forced to go wherever the cabbie took you. If you did not want to go to the tourist trap, you should have repeatedly told him no and communicate what you did want to eat. If you were concerned about him just leaving you stranded, well then I understand your approach.

All in all, I liked how you showed him what he would have gotten and stuck it back in your pocket. Not classy, but it got your point across.

 

[lakewolf]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

... snip...
so, nobody was happy.

Well, someday life will teach you that to make the people near to you ( and with that, also yourself ) happy is the only important thing.

F*ck the 500 pesos and the 60 minutes, you acted like a dick and upset everybody in the process.. so what did you win ?

At least during your holidays you should be more relaxed and enjoy life, leave being a dick for your working hours.

 

[tiecollector]

Originally Posted by lakewolf

Well, someday life will teach you that to make the people near to you ( and with that, also yourself ) happy is the only important thing.

F*ck the 500 pesos and the 60 minutes, you acted like a dick and upset everybody in the process.. so what did you win ?

At least during your holidays you should be more relaxed and enjoy life, leave being a dick for your working hours.

Is this Roland Loden of Germany?

Waving the money at the end was awesome but it probably just pissed everyone else off. If it pissed the guide off and didn't get you ass-raped then that is a good thing, but pissing your wife off and you being pissed because you still had to go to a tourist trap wasn't the best though.

 

[Merlino]

Originally Posted by lakewolf

Well, someday life will teach you that to make the people near to you ( and with that, also yourself ) happy is the only important thing.

Although your opinion is obviously valid, I would argue that he's only responsible for his own happiness. His wife is also entitled to her opinion but, and I honestly don't wish to generalise here, I have experienced that women would rather get screwed over in matters like this in order to keep the peace than to stand by their principles and get into an argument. I have also seen some of my female friends regretting such course of action afterwards, wishing they had stood up for themselves.

I think GT did the right thing although I wouldn't necesarily have done it the same way as he did (wouldn't have waved the bill in front of his nose or maybe only after the cabbie made some remark about not being tipped).

 

[HomerJ]

Originally Posted by Renault78law

I think it's kind of cool in an observational humor sitcom sort of way. In practice, definitely on the rude side. You're on vacation, try to relax a little. I think your wife was right; I can't comment on how your kids took it. Anyway, you made your objection, which was appropriate. I think you crossed the line with the crack regarding the tip deduction. If you can't convince your tour guide to do what you want, it's well within your right to stiff him the tip. Don't need to make a scene...doesn't seem like it would lead to anything constructive.

I would agree with Renault and also somewhat with lakewolf. At least you didn't shove the guy like the airline attendant.

 

[tiecollector]

Originally Posted by Merlino

Although your opinion is obviously valid, I would argue that he's only responsible for his own happiness. His wife is also entitled to her opinion but, and I honestly don't wish to generalise here, I have experienced that women would rather get screwed over in matters like this in order to keep the peace than to stand by their principles and get into an argument. I have also seen some of my female friends regretting such course of action afterwards, wishing they had stood up for themselves. I think GT did the right thing although I wouldn't necesarily have done it the same way as he did (wouldn't have waved the bill in front of his nose or maybe only after the cabbie made some remark about not being tipped).
+10000 and you are European! You should meet my mom *rolls eyes*. It is a fine line and it sucks.

 

[lakewolf]

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

I went into Nice, in the French Riviera, and with all the street vendors (unless of course it was somethign with set prices) but all the guys selling stuff like sunglasses,bags,flowers, whatever, we had negotiatory talks with practically every purchase. We had to tell tourguides no almost nonstop in order to get what we wanted.

I don't really think it's a 'which countries' thing at all. It's the case in all countries that have people who offer those kinds of services.

Exactly, having travelled enough in SouthAmerica, I can tell you this is part of the culture.

Everything has to be bargained. All prices are negotiable and sellers normally price up so there is room for bargaining and then they give you almost allways a discount at the end.

Street vendors, insist many times about their products and you have to say no repeatedly for them to leave you alone, and tourists guides do the same.

And finally. think about it, in those countries people don't make much money. maybe the "comission" that guy was getting to take you there was very little and even with that he has to do it to keep their jobs going on and in good relationship with the restaurants and places.

So what is the greatness of screwing a guy punishing with not giving him $50 ? I make more than $100K per year. that guy is probably having trouble to make ends meets every month.

When I am on hollidays I don't care about those little things, it would be stingy, cheap, meager etc. I just forget about that and enjoy my free holiday time, I make happy my family and friends with me and this is 100x better than winning an argument with a tourist guide or flight attendant.

 

[Roland Loden of Germany]

Originally Posted by tiecollector

Is this Roland Loden of Germany?



No, I am Roland Loden of Germany and don't you regret it.

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by lakewolf

And finally. think about it, in those countries people don't make much money. maybe the "comission" that guy was getting to take you there was very little and even with that he has to do it to keep their jobs going on and in good relationship with the restaurants and places.

So what is the greatness of screwing a guy punishing with not giving him $50 ? I make more than $100K per year. that guy is probably having trouble to make ends meets every month.

When I am on hollidays I don't care about those little things, it would be stingy, cheap, meager etc. I just forget about that and enjoy my free holiday time, I make happy my family and friends with me and this is 100x better than winning an argument with a tourist guide or flight attendant.


the money wasn't the issue - the issue was that I was in Mexico City for two meals, and I didn't want to spend one of them eating crap in a tourist trap, and, just as importantly, I had 5 hours to get to the pyramids to the north of town, and then to the center of the city to see a specific museum, and I didn't want my tour guide wasting my time so that he could get a kickback and so I would miss the very thing that I had come to see in Mexico City.

I would have been happy to give the guide a tip, if he had done what I wanted him to. he made a choice, guessing that I would act like all the other tourists he had ripped off, and so he gambled his tip for a (lets say) $5 kickback - and he lost $45.


look, we spent close to $15K on this trip. when I got to my hotel - they didn't have connecting rooms, which isn't such a bad thing, unless you have 3 kids under the age of 6 who are going to sleep in one of the rooms. so I had to shout and ream somebody a new asshole. and they found us connecting rooms. on christmas day they didn't want to clean the rooms, because they were short staffed, so, again, I had to ream somebody a new asshole, and they cleaned our rooms and got us new towels.

so, yes, I could have jsut sort of glided through my vacation, and maybe my wife and I could have each slept in a different room with some of the kids, or maybe we could have picked the towels off the floor and used them again, but that wasn't my idea of a relaxing vacation. yes, I would prefer not to have to get agravated on vacation, and perhaps I will decide never to go to mexico for vacation again - but all in all the vacation was pretty good, cosidering.

 

[Mr. Checks]

Since you asked about etiquette, I'll answer that way: Miss Manners would say never to return rudeness with rudeness. In your position, she would be firm but never rude, so she'd say, "thank you, no, we'll be dining here."

When he did not follow that instruction, she probably would have tipped him nothing, and perhaps made an oblique reference to "having spent that sum previously with his business associate."

BTW, Miss Manners is a delightful writer (formerly a journalist)

 

[kwilkinson]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

the money wasn't the issue - the issue was that I was in Mexico City for two meals, and I didn't want to spend one of them eating crap in a tourist trap, and, just as importantly, I had 5 hours to get to the pyramids to the north of town, and then to the center of the city to see a specific museum, and I didn't want my tour guide wasting my time so that he could get a kickback and so I would miss the very thing that I had come to see in Mexico City.

I would have been happy to give the guide a tip, if he had done what I wanted him to. he made a choice, guessing that I would act like all the other tourists he had ripped off, and so he gambled his tip for a (lets say) $5 kickback - and he lost $45.


look, we spent close to $15K on this trip. when I got to my hotel - they didn't have connecting rooms, which isn't such a bad thing, unless you have 3 kids under the age of 6 who are going to sleep in one of the rooms. so I had to shout and ream somebody a new asshole. and they found us connecting rooms. on christmas day they didn't want to clean the rooms, because they were short staffed, so, again, I had to ream somebody a new asshole, and they cleaned our rooms and got us new towels.

so, yes, I could have jsut sort of glided through my vacation, and maybe my wife and I could have each slept in a different room with some of the kids, or maybe we could have picked the towels off the floor and used them again, but that wasn't my idea of a relaxing vacation. yes, I would prefer not to have to get agravated on vacation, and perhaps I will decide never to go to mexico for vacation again - but all in all the vacation was pretty good, cosidering.


Fact of the matter is you paid all this cash out for ****** service, and the amount of money you were paying should have reserved you all the things you needed, if not more. That, in my mind, means all the yelling and showing the guide the tip and then taking it away, is justified. People who are telling you how wrong you are are either A) never been in the situation, so they can't realistically tell you how they'd react, or B) too much of a pushover to get what they really want.

 

[Roland Loden of Germany]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

t

look, we spent close to $15K on this trip.

Are we looking for a suitcase of greenbacks?

 

[amerikajinda]

Originally Posted by Mr. Checks

Since you asked about etiquette, I'll answer that way: Miss Manners would say never to return rudeness with rudeness. In your position, she would be firm but never rude, so she'd say, "thank you, no, we'll be dining here."

When he did not follow that instruction, she probably would have tipped him nothing, and perhaps made an oblique reference to "having spent that sum previously with his business associate."

BTW, Miss Manners is a delightful writer (formerly a journalist)

I met her twice -- once as she was walking into a fabric store, and the other time at a book signing at Politics & Prose. She's very gracious and very level-headed. I greatly admire her.

 

[lefty]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

the money wasn't the issue - the issue was that I was in Mexico City for two meals, and I didn't want to spend one of them eating crap in a tourist trap, and, just as importantly, I had 5 hours to get to the pyramids to the north of town, and then to the center of the city to see a specific museum, and I didn't want my tour guide wasting my time so that he could get a kickback and so I would miss the very thing that I had come to see in Mexico City.

I would have been happy to give the guide a tip, if he had done what I wanted him to. he made a choice, guessing that I would act like all the other tourists he had ripped off, and so he gambled his tip for a (lets say) $5 kickback - and he lost $45.


look, we spent close to $15K on this trip. when I got to my hotel - they didn't have connecting rooms, which isn't such a bad thing, unless you have 3 kids under the age of 6 who are going to sleep in one of the rooms. so I had to shout and ream somebody a new asshole. and they found us connecting rooms. on christmas day they didn't want to clean the rooms, because they were short staffed, so, again, I had to ream somebody a new asshole, and they cleaned our rooms and got us new towels.

so, yes, I could have jsut sort of glided through my vacation, and maybe my wife and I could have each slept in a different room with some of the kids, or maybe we could have picked the towels off the floor and used them again, but that wasn't my idea of a relaxing vacation. yes, I would prefer not to have to get agravated on vacation, and perhaps I will decide never to go to mexico for vacation again - but all in all the vacation was pretty good, cosidering.

I've lived and traveled all over the world including a few dodgy places and I've never had a cab driver refuse to take me where I wanted to go once I insisted.

I've also have yet to "ream someone a new asshole" for screwing up a hotel reservation or failing to bring towels. Were your kids standing there witnessing your reaming?

lefty