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Ermenegildo zegna versus Canali M2M

lovelux2010

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hello,

just wondering if anyone has any experience with Ermenegildo Zegna or Canali M2M.

i went to both canali and ermenegildo zegna today. at canali, i picked out a new cut they have, a neopolitan style shoulder, a fairly trim fit. they are going to make an M2M for me by making the suit shorter, sleeves shorter and some other minor adjustements..but the suit is very much based on the OTR one that fit quite well. they charge a 20% premium for the service

i then went to Ermenegildo Zegna, and felt as if i may have made a mistake in the canali. the person at ermenegildo zegna said with their M2M they take a lot of measurements (shoulder, waist, etc etc) and that the tailor would help measure me up etc.

anyways, the guy at zegna made me feel like canali did not do as thourough a job with the measurement process..but i'm no expert. seems like the canali approach was to find a suit that fit well OTR and make adjustments off this..

whereas Zegna seemed as though they would do a lot more measurements..

i can see pro to both ways - one may argue altering a OTR for M2m can go wrong..as its not a true bespoke. anyways, i'm going to ask to see the tailor once my canali comes in.

after zegna, i went back to canali, and they had a more senior person look over the cut and measurements, which i apprciated, but again, he was not a tailor.

i suppose any suit M2M is only going to be as good as the person measuring and sizing me up, which is why i felt dissapointed canali did not have a tailor involved. that being said, i should have the option to have a tailor there when i go for my second fitting

anyways, would appreciate anyones thoughts on the matter..thanks
 

Sanguis Mortuum

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Originally Posted by lovelux2010
one may argue altering a OTR for M2m can go wrong..as its not a true bespoke.

Neither is 'true bespoke'. The Canali option does not even sound like it's really MTM...
 

lovelux2010

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Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum
Neither is 'true bespoke'. The Canali option does not even sound like it's really MTM...

i agree neither is anywhere close to bespoke..
i'm just not sure if the canali approach of finding a cut that fits well, and making adjustments is normal.
the guy at zegna made me feel like there should have been 10+ measurements taken..
canali did'nt really use a tape measure they just made adjustments by eye...but was'nt a tailor which is worrying
 

Nicola

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Do you need MTM? In other words why doesn't the stock suit work for you?

Adjusting the sleeves is normal for even the cheapest OTR. I'm not even sure this is worth them mentioning.
 

lovelux2010

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Originally Posted by Nicola
Do you need MTM? In other words why doesn't the stock suit work for you? Adjusting the sleeves is normal for even the cheapest OTR. I'm not even sure this is worth them mentioning.
they adjusted sleeves, and it was pulling when i do the second button up.. they're also going to shorten the jacket.. i just felt suprised after going to zegna that more measurments weren't taken as it seems as though zegna would do a lot of measurements. anyways..i've already paid my deposit, so my own fault really for not going to zegna and weighing options more thouroughly first. not sure if they would refund me, even though the factory would not have the order yet as its saturday, and also the factory in italy is closed for summer. i was thinking to ask for a refund, but the receipt says @7 days for any exchange or credit note"..so i'm guessing that they wont give a refund
 

stylomilo

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Don't think you will get a refund unless you can show that there's a defect in the products that you could not have reasonably detected during the purchase.
I have tried both Canali & Zegna :-

1. Canali -The MTM options is extremely limited which accounts for the lower prices. In most cases they will try to minimize any alterations etc. Choices are limited to fabric, working cuff buttons & type of buttons at best.
I understand that there's a more extensive MTM /Bespoke program offered in Milan.

2. Zegna
There are generally two quality ranges offered here:-
a) Su Misura. This is the basic /starter range. You get less handwork but have more options ie different linings , designs etc. The cut is similar to the general Zegna RTW range
b) Su Misura Couture. This has more handwork & is cut closer to the body . Lots of nice features generally available on bespoke suits as well as fabrics exclusive to the range.

Of the two ( Canali & Zegna ), it is my opinion that Zegna is the better one but is not truly bespoke & is still dependent on adjustment on their stock models. Further , if the stock models are no longer available, you would have to be re measured.

There are plenty of options where MTM is concerned
 

dragon8

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Canali has two programs.

1. R30-which is basically a getting a jacket and trousers in OTR sizes but you can specify the model, how many buttons, unfinished sleeves.

2. MTM-they take measurements and cut a suit based on your measurements and preferences.

I've had the R30 done several times. Their MTM I've inquired with Canali over the phone but no experience.

I've done Zegna Su Misura once. I got measured and the fit was better than most OTR suits but both Canali and Zegna needed alterations.
 

lovelux2010

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well..
canali definately called it M2M..and i'm paying the M2M price..
no measurements were taken..
basically they chose a suit that looks decent, and are using that as the base with very very few adjustments

i got the feeling the zegna M2M took tons of measurements etc..
and its only slightly more expensive

anyways..
i dont know what "rights" i have to a refund..but i may inquire as i'd like to at least expolore the zegna option more.
 

lovelux2010

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Originally Posted by dragon8
Canali has two programs.

1. R30-which is basically a getting a jacket and trousers in OTR sizes but you can specify the model, how many buttons, unfinished sleeves.

2. MTM-they take measurements and cut a suit based on your measurements and preferences.

I've had the R30 done several times. Their MTM I've inquired with Canali over the phone but no experience.

I've done Zegna Su Misura once. I got measured and the fit was better than most OTR suits but both Canali and Zegna needed alterations.



i am paying M2M prices..but sounds like they are doing the R30..
i get the feeling when i get the suit they're going to say it all looks fantastic and minimize the work they need to do..
anyways i shall find out..
 

lovelux2010

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Originally Posted by stylomilo
Don't think you will get a refund unless you can show that there's a defect in the products that you could not have reasonably detected during the purchase.
I have tried both Canali & Zegna :-

1. Canali -The MTM options is extremely limited which accounts for the lower prices. In most cases they will try to minimize any alterations etc. Choices are limited to fabric, working cuff buttons & type of buttons at best.
I understand that there's a more extensive MTM /Bespoke program offered in Milan.

2. Zegna
There are generally two quality ranges offered here:-
a) Su Misura. This is the basic /starter range. You get less handwork but have more options ie different linings , designs etc. The cut is similar to the general Zegna RTW range
b) Su Misura Couture. This has more handwork & is cut closer to the body . Lots of nice features generally available on bespoke suits as well as fabrics exclusive to the range.

Of the two ( Canali & Zegna ), it is my opinion that Zegna is the better one but is not truly bespoke & is still dependent on adjustment on their stock models. Further , if the stock models are no longer available, you would have to be re measured.

There are plenty of options where MTM is concerned



well..
i'm not sure if i will get a refund. but in my opinion, this situation is unique in that i'm paying for a "service" and for a suit. i am not receiving what a reonable m2m program would offer..for example..no measurements were taken whatsoever..
not sure if this is normal.

anyways i'll check with canali although my receipt does say 7 days for returns/exchanges..
although there is no tangible good to exchange.

what i would be fine with is paying for their 30 minutes of time for the consultation..suppose they could deduct £100 or so from me for that
 

dragon8

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Originally Posted by lovelux2010
i am paying M2M prices..but sounds like they are doing the R30..
i get the feeling when i get the suit they're going to say it all looks fantastic and minimize the work they need to do..
anyways i shall find out..


It does sound like the R30 program that you got. If you go Zegna MTM I'd go to a boutique as they will give you a 20% discount if you ask.

If they didn't start work on your suit yet I can't see why they wouldn't give you a refund.
 

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