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Enzo Bonafe Handmade Shoes.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Chris "Italia", Nov 4, 2007.

  1. mbaltazar

    mbaltazar Senior member

    Messages:
    261
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    
    Hey Kevenmee, yes I'm still interested in this make up, but no one else seemed interested on keep going...
     
  2. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage

    thank you for
    providing an
    indirect answer to
    my question poasted
    above


    nao....
    not to be
    pedantic
    but i want
    to discuss
    semantics......

    what does..
    "produced in a similar way"
    mean
    ??

    here is a photo
    from a famed
    japanese maker
    (clicky linky
    always in blue)
    showing teh components
    (excluding the heel counter)
    of a dover shoe
    and teh final
    product:

    [​IMG]

    note that the
    prepwork for preparing
    teh handstitching
    for the difficult
    apron stitch
    and split to
    has been done


    and here is
    a pix from
    your salespage
    [​IMG]

    and a new one
    from patlof's insta
    of the incoming
    preordered shoes:
    [​IMG]


    there has been no
    clear photo of
    teh toe so
    far until now..
    when teh owner
    of the above shoe
    poasted on instag:

    [​IMG]

    now.....
    this does
    not appear
    to be a real split toe....
    (one that is made
    of two separate pieces
    and joined with
    a very difficult
    method of stitching
    liek teh dover)
    this looks like decorative
    understitching
    giving a
    superficial illusion
    of a split toe.

    in addition
    the apron stitch
    is vastly different
    from the difficult
    method of teh
    dover and its ilk..

    the eb apron stitch is
    like those found
    in some of
    tod;s loafers
    eg:

    [​IMG]


    and in some
    meermin mto
    such as this:

    [​IMG]
    to be fair
    meermin does
    have a true split toe



    now back to
    pendantry
    and semantics
    in what way
    is teh eb
    "produced in a similar way"
    mean?

    if the toe
    is not two separate pieces
    it changes drastically
    the pattern of the shoe
    upper

    if the toe seam
    is only decoration
    it is of a much
    lower magnitude of
    difficulty in stitching
    compared to
    teh tunnel stitch
    which is functional

    the apron
    stitch is evidently
    different from
    the much moar difficult
    pie crust

    i cannot see
    where the
    similarity of production
    lies..

    different pattern
    different stitching
    the only similiarity is
    at a quick glance
    for there
    is none of teh technical
    difficulties present...
    (unless of course
    eb is producing one
    for your store
    made exactly like
    teh dover
    but as yet no photos
    exist)

    shoemakers on
    this forum who have
    experience with these
    kind of work
    such as @ntempleman
    who has just been making several
    superb norwegian split toes
    and @DWFII
    and @shoefan
    could maybe expand
    on the type of stitching
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  3. TtownMD

    TtownMD Senior member

    Messages:
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    May 4, 2015
    Location:
    US
    ^^^^^spot on & well said T4phage this does not look any thing like Dover stitching
     
  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,230
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Location:
    The Highlands of Central Oregon
    

    The Japanese maker seems to be doing a true "split and lift" stitch on the apron and true "round closing" on a true split toe. Both techniques require considerable skill, specialized tools and a better grade of leather than more common techniques.

    As for the "produced in a similar way" meme...I've been railing against deceptive advertising and pretense since I came on SF. It's not new...in a very real sense, it's actually the default in the Industry. And in all honesty, the prevalence of it is probably the only thing that makes contributions such as mine (and other bona fide shoemakers on the forum) worthwhile. Of course, curious, energetic minds and a willing-to-learn audience are critical. Otherwise it's all fools gold...fancy boxes and magpie glitter...and who cares? If the price is right.

    edited for punctuation and clarity
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  5. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

    Messages:
    2,115
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2014
    Location:
    España
    [​IMG]
    Here is a clear drawing made by member shoemaker Nicholas Templeman wich shows different techniques for stitching the apron.

    From the pic T4 posted (patlof Inst EB) it seems to me uses a Split Raised Lake rather than a Pie Crust technique (Dover) for the apron, not stitching different pieces of the upper.

    Furtheremore, the toe stitching of patlof at Insta seems to me to be fake (maybe some kind of interior reinforcement simulating kind of interior stitching during lasting). They do not joint pieces of leather either and there is no skin stitch or round closing stitch at all.,



    Just my thoughts from those pics.

    PD.-DW I think the Japanese maker was using Pie Crust stitching technique for the apron and round closing for the toe, just like the Dover.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,230
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Location:
    The Highlands of Central Oregon
    

    I may be wrong but I believe "split and lift" is the older, more Traditional, term for "pie crust" stitching.
     
  7. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    
    look again teh bonafe apron is a separate piece look carefully if you don't see it look again and again wanna clue ? look under teh laces
    good to know that you learnt something... since your poast below:
    was in reply to my previous post which already showed the lack of a split toe....
     
  8. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,230
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Location:
    The Highlands of Central Oregon
    ^ See [COLOR=FF0000]this link[/COLOR] if you want a more detailed and more authoritative perspective.

    (from one of the world's foremost shoe historians and a certified Master Shoemaker)

    edited for punctuation and clarity
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  9. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

    Messages:
    2,115
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    Oct 2, 2014
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    España
    Well, I am afraid I have no enough knowledge to discuss that with you.[​IMG]
     
  10. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
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    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    
    ahhh..
    and where
    may they be
    in teh land
    of
    multi kopterism


    =D
    teh lifeblood
    of many....
    suckers
     
  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,230
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Location:
    The Highlands of Central Oregon
    

    See post #2708 if you want more knowledge.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Leaves

    Leaves Senior member Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    4,612
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Sweden
    Wow, what a great discussion!

    I will edit my previous post, I have confess that I am a bit confused myself about the construction. Bonafè has been experimenting with different ways to make a split toe, and I've seen many different versions, hence my confusion. My post was not intended to mislead anyone, feel free to call me stupid or ignorant or whatever, but it was not intentional.

    Have a great weekend!
     
    2 people like this.
  13. yanagi

    yanagi Senior member

    Messages:
    389
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    I have a pair incoming today. Look forward to wearing them.

    What would accurately describe the style? Apron toe with a mock split?
     
  14. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

    Messages:
    8,333
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Location:
    Oakville, Ontario, CANADA
    

    Congrats. They are a gorgeous pair.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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    Oct 2, 2014
    Location:
    España
    Firt of all, you should calm down; it seems like pretencious guy for trivial things is triying to teach others. I might have been wrong in my responses to you due to the fact of bad pics of the EB that were shown before/here, that is why I posted and frequently post "It seems to me" (I m not at all an expert like you claim to be). Pics are pics and everyone has the right to give an opinion and still be wrong.

    Second when somebody ask any question and gets answered, I always thank the action taken, even if the answer could be wrong.

    You should improve your education and be just a bit humble to improve your "learning classes".

    Hope
    tha
    teacher
    learnt
    something
    too.
     
    3 people like this.
  16. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Location:
    Oakville, Ontario, CANADA
    Zap - spot on my man.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    

    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

    Messages:
    2,115
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    Oct 2, 2014
    Location:
    España
    You are an expert on memes too, like my little boys. Funny thanks!!.

    Now
    I
    am
    going
    to
    enjoy
    a
    couple
    of
    beers.
    Cheers.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

    Messages:
    2,115
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2014
    Location:
    España
    World is full of unhappy people.[​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Senior member

    Messages:
    10,832
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    BTW, T4 actually writes perfect English; he just does this shtick for SF.
     

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