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Enzo Bonafe Handmade Shoes.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Chris "Italia", Nov 4, 2007.

  1. 02///M3

    02///M3 Senior member

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    That's fair. There is definitely something to say for sticking with instincts. TBH, I'm not really sure how it's smaller, just that there is always slightly more movement within the shoe with my right foot than with my left.

    Here is a quick pic I snapped of them next to my two pairs of AS. They appear (and feel) very close in size, but the EBs have more extensive and deeper creasing.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. 02///M3

    02///M3 Senior member

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    I have never used the pencil-on-vamp trick for any shoes and honestly never could bring myself to do something that seems so silly. Nor would it have helped here, since they are creasing in many places other than the vamp (toe box, etc). You can even see that there is creasing near the eyelets, where there is no flex at all.

    Anyway, again, sorry to keep this going. I have no doubt EB makes great shoes, judging by most posters experiences here. Indeed I have another pair on the way. I think in this case I just got subpar hide or something.
     
  3. sleepyinsanfran

    sleepyinsanfran Senior member

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    well that's what I thought too (subpar hide), but when a shoemaker with 40 years in the trade tells you it's the fit... I'm trying to take it educationally :) (but they're your shoes, so I understand that you would feel differently!)
     
  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Just for clarity...I'm not saying, definitively, that it's the fit. Nor am I saying that it's the leather. It could be either / or. Or it could just be the nature of that particular leather and not the quality.

    But when we try to fit ourselves too often we really don't use realistic criteria and then we end up blaming the leather or the shoemaker.

    I am assuming this is an RTW.

    Now many people...including master shoemakers...would disagree with me and certainly a whole slew of consumers will take issue. If for that reason alone, I'm not going to critique the fit. I'm not there, I'm not wearing the shoes and fit is all too often in the "eye of the beholder." A bespoke shoemaker quickly learns that fitting the head is the better part of fitting the foot. That said, my take is that the facings are lacing up too close together on these shoes. It's also an early indicator that the shoe will be loose in the forepart--over the joint. That's a choice the customer often deliberately makes. And more power to them. But it leaves no leeway for ease in the shoe as it is worn. Soon enough the facings will close up edge to edge and then the shoe will never again be snug on the foot...as I think it should be.

    People can take this all with a grain of salt--I spent most of my career making pull-on boots. There, the boot fits or it doesn't. Period. You have no laces to loosen or snug the fit up. And it does no one any good for the foot to be bouncing around inside a boot like a ball in a handball court. A boot should fit like a second skin. No slack, no chasing pipes and wrinkles ahead of your fingers when you feel the foot inside the boot.

    My philosophy is that a shoe shouldn't be much different. It shouldn't fit like a slipper...despite urban myth and wishful thinking. Despite urban myth and wishful thinking, even a bespoke shoe needs to break in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  5. 02///M3

    02///M3 Senior member

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    I definitely appreciate insight of somebody with your knowledge/experience as well as your approach to communicating it. You are not the first person to tell me that the facings should not close all the way for that very reason. On most of my shoes the facing comes close to closing all the way, but I will admit that is because aesthetically I find it more pleasing than the alternative. Usually it hasn't led to issues, perhaps because my feet don't really expand when it gets hot or the day wears on, etc., but in this case maybe it's playing some role. Either way it's led to an interesting discussion so thanks for that.
     
  6. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Senior member

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    @DWFII
    As always, your insight, opinions and contributions to this thread are greatly appreciated.
    I am aware that you have a reputation as a very good and meticulous fitter. And you also take pride in using the best leathers for your work.
    Have you ever had a problem of dealing with a client's perception of their shoes/boots creasing more than they can accept? If so, what do you usually put it down to, and how would you manage the "problem"?
     
  7. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Well, this is Bonafe's thread and so I think this should be my last post on this subject...at least here.

    No, I never have. Whether it is because I deliberately fit snug or because these are niceties that most of my customers don't pay much attention to, I don't know.

    The only time this issue has arisen was when I misfit a customer...at his insistence and despite my misgivings and objections. He was happy as a clam but I hated everything about those boots when he had walked a half dozen steps.

    However, that's "bespoke."

    PS and on edit...

    Toe spring, as well as the direction a vamp is cut relative to the lines of stretch and the way the shoe is lasted have, I believe, a profound and measurable influence on creasing. For those interested I will be out of touch tomorrow but would be glad to explain my thinking over in Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions after that. FWIW.

    --
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  8. Leaves

    Leaves Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    @02///M3 Yea I'm sure Gabriel can answer most of your questions privately. I just wanted to make a note on your above picture though - please, please, please use proper shoe trees in your shoes. When spending this amount on shoes, you don't really want to save in on the trees.
     
    2 people like this.
  9. 02///M3

    02///M3 Senior member

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    Gabriel mentioned this in his email today as well. Just for reassurance, those are travel trees which I use when I go straight from the office to the gym then home. They normally sit with a similar type of cedar trees used in the other shoes.
     
  10. laufer

    laufer Senior member

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    Guys I would urge caution when using penci-on-vamp trick. I had good and bad results when using pencil-on-vamp trick. The good results were visible on well fitting shoes while on "bad" fitting shoes, those that have extra space in vamp area the results were regrettable.
     
  11. hmlarsson

    hmlarsson Well-Known Member

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    First time out with these. [​IMG]
    Got to do something about the high instep.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. khald

    khald New Member

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    Crosspost from Enzo Bonafe GMTO thread
    Hi

    I'm looking for at least 3 more participants for a GMTO through skoak.The price would be 4880 SEK (50% deposit and the remaining at the delivery). Open to suggestions.


    Model:3922, modified
    Upper: Dark brown museum
    Shaft: Hidro oceano
    Sole: Millerighe rubber sole(black)
    last:74945
    Edge color: Black
    Eyelets: 4 blind eyelets and 4 speed hooks (in dark color)
    Welt: Hand welted 270 degree
    Laces: flat lace


    So this model:
    [​IMG]
    Here is the leather combination:
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Pbayvip

    Pbayvip Senior member

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    Help me out, what's the difference between the two models pictured, aside from different color uppers? Just the brogueing around the shaft?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
  14. peppercorn78

    peppercorn78 Senior member

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    That and the last.
     
  15. Pbayvip

    Pbayvip Senior member

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    Thanks.
    Not that I need another pair of boots, but I like those so count me in.
     
  16. Odd I/O

    Odd I/O Senior member

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    How does one decide where to put the pencil? I'd like to try this but don't want to screw it all up.
     
  17. j ingevaldsson

    j ingevaldsson Senior member

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    I've written a post about this on my blog a while back. I've never had a bad experience with this, as Laufer has.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Good tutorial...spot on.
     
  19. j ingevaldsson

    j ingevaldsson Senior member

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    Thanks!
     
  20. kevenmee

    kevenmee Active Member

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    Hey Mbaltazar, haven't really kept up but was this something you were still interested in?
     

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