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Enzo Bonafe Handmade Shoes.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Chris "Italia", Nov 4, 2007.

  1. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Well-Known Member

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    I have 17 pairs of shoes and boots from EB.
    Apart from one pair, which did seem to crease more than normal. The rest of my pairs had pretty stellar leather.
    I think that for RTW makers, there will be some variation in terms of thickness and quality of the leather.
    EB generally exercises pretty good and consistent QC. Surely not as terrible as some RTW makers I will not mention for now.
     
  2. sleepyinsanfran

    sleepyinsanfran Well-Known Member

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    well, carmina uses a heavy fabric backing (based on pictures of scraped uppers which others have shared), while bonafe doesnt, so the latter will show more creasing, although the above might be a bit much (perhaps some weird cut of teh hide as TM above mentions)
    I prefer the 'betis' crust leathers from bonafe (instead of the 'vitello' which is generic italian for 'calf') ; I find betis leathers quite nice but the betis finish might require a tad more maintenance (which I am happy to do!)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  3. Leaves

    Leaves Well-Known Member

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    Is this the first time you wear Bonafè and this last? To be honest, it looks like there is a lot of excess room there which might cause the creasing. I'm not saying it's the case but just looking at the pictures makes me think so. Feel free to email us your feedback. We might have to see them in person to make some kind of assessment.
     
  4. Zapasman

    Zapasman Well-Known Member

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    Are all RTW EB uppers hand clicked?
     
  5. RogerP

    RogerP Well-Known Member

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    My thought exactly Patrik - looks like a fit issue.
     
  6. Leaves

    Leaves Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The only maker we carry that does not hand click is Carlos Santos, they hand click some and machine click some, depending on pattern. Even though a maker uses a machine to click, you still have a clicker that asses the leather and places where the pattern pieces is supposed to go. These machines are huge, very advanced and probably costs a furtune, I think that only the very large makers will ever afford them (like Church's, Crockett & Jones, AE etc).
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  7. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    Clicking machines are big...and powerful...it's true, but not particularly complex or "advanced." The machine itself doesn't care where or what it cuts--leather, fingers whatever, it will cut them. Fundamentally they are just fast powerful presses.

    When pre-owned, they can sometimes be bought for not much more than their worth as scrap.

    It's useful to understand that clickers are made big and powerful for a reason--they are fundamentally meant to cut through a stack of leather rather than one hide at a time. Pile ten sides of calf on the workspace, position your cutters and push a button--20 vamps, 40 quarters, etc.. Or load up several identical patterns on a stack of insole bends and cut 100 pair.

    Rinse and repeat...all day long.

    Thing is that human operators are pretty much out of the loop at that point. The operator can place patterns to avoid warble holes or brands or scratches or just flanky leather according to what he sees on the topmost hide but he can't really take into account such blems on any of the hides further down the stack. Selectivity is for quantity not quality.

    Yet it's all bought and paid for. Most pieces cut this way will undoubtedly be at least acceptable quality esp. if you "jigger" the definitions of quality. But some won't. The implications seem clear...at least to me...the "seconds" will be used or it's money down the toilet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  8. RogerP

    RogerP Well-Known Member

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    Good info my man, thanks.
     
  9. Leaves

    Leaves Well-Known Member

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    I did not know they could be bought at such a cheap price. Interesting. I believe the one I saw just cut one skin at a time though, it was not a stack of skins but I might be wrong.
     
  10. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    There are times, certainly, when clickers are used for just one skin--such as for demonstrations and TV appearances :). But it defies their intended purpose and design...as well as logic...to use them like that, generally speaking.

    IOW, if you're going to use them for one skin, it's far and away cheaper and maybe even quicker (esp. if cutting for "best" quality) to click by hand.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  11. vmss

    vmss Well-Known Member

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    @DWF What would you make of this? Interested in your opinion.
     
  12. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the right foot is longer than the left.

    Other than that, no comment except to say that leather is not plastic. Even on the same hide, directly across the backbone from each other, two vamps can have different temper and even substance. And if no attempt is made to control the initial creasing, there will be no control of the creasing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  13. Zapasman

    Zapasman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your answer. Here you also have some large factories with CNC cutting machines for leather uppers. I understand most s&m size factories use different small hidraulic die cutting machines. Not sure if Carmina uses hand clicking for any of their lines but they have good consistency on its production.
     
  14. tdes81

    tdes81 Well-Known Member

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    Hooray for cooler weather. Black peccary button boots today.

    [​IMG]
     
    7 people like this.
  15. Leaves

    Leaves Well-Known Member

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    Carmina clicks everything by hand.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a fit issue, not a leather issue- are your feet especially wide/narrow, or feet different sizes?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  17. 02///M3

    02///M3 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's a sizing issue, mainly because they seem to fit very well. Like most people on SF, I'm pretty picky about sizing. There is some excess volume in the toe box, but nothing that isn't typical for my other shoes, and frankly anything smaller would likely become uncomfortable by the end of the day. I also get virtually no heel slip. Admittedly I did think they were a little big to start, but I think I was just deceived by the higher instep.

    Generally though my feet are pretty average, with my right being slightly smaller than my left. I measure just over an 11 D on brannock, but take an E in some of the narrower Alden lasts.

    Anyway, don't want to hijack this thread more than I already have. Thanks for the input everyone. I emailed Skoak and will see if there's anything to be done.
     
  18. DWFII

    DWFII Well-Known Member

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    "Smaller" how? Narrower or shorter? Most people have one foot that is longer than the other. And the longer foot tends to be narrower than the shorter foot. A diagonal crease like on the right shoe, is often, but not always, a sign that they are short fit.

    That said, as mentioned, there are ways to control the initial crease but once a shoe begins to crease diagonally it almost cannot be stopped.

    And a word to the wise, FWIW--generally speaking, your first impression is the correct one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  19. KPDarb

    KPDarb Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why but I did not expect this. I also didn't expect to learn they use a type of leather heel counter and not synthetic. Good stuff
     
  20. sleepyinsanfran

    sleepyinsanfran Well-Known Member

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    good to know that you believe it's the sizing, and the way the user first creased the shoes (perhaps not using the pencil-on-vamp for the first few steps)
    and not something to do with the quality of the hide.
     

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