English dandyism, yesterday's and today's

[Cary Grant]

Originally Posted by Manton

I would put this a bit differently.

The reason people react negatively is not because the rabbit vest/tie are "personal." That alone is not enough. It is the childishness of it, the sad element of fantasy that a grown man would spend that kind of money, and invest that amount of time, to reinforce an Internet persona.

For all your talk about how so many of us (me above all) take the Internet too seriously, you are the only one who has gone to these astounding lengths.

When I was seven I dressed up as Han Solo. When I was seven.

I'm sorry. I'm new here more or less... and I'm not trying to take sides... but I opened this thread fearing how many posts down it would be before your attack.

I really respet your posts and history too and was interested in your book, but this really makes me think twice. FWIW.

"Childish?" Balloney. Childlike as in whimsy, maybe...

Sorry to derail.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Cary Grant

I'm sorry. I'm new here more or less... and I'm not trying to take sides... but I opened this thread fearing how many posts down it would be before your attack.

I really respet your posts and history too and was interested in your book, but this really makes me think twice. FWIW.

"Childish?" Balloney. Childlike as in whimsy, maybe...

Sorry to derail.

If it weren't tied to an Internet avatar, I might agree. But it is. Add to that the calling card with the screen name, and it all starts to seem really creepy. At least it does to me.

 

[Cary Grant]

Originally Posted by Manton

If it weren't tied to an Internet avatar, I might agree. But it is. Add to that the calling card with the screen name, and it all starts to seem really creepy. At least it does to me.

Sorry, I'm dense- you are addressing that to me? or to FNB?

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Cary Grant

Sorry, I'm dense- you are addressing that to me? or to FNB?

To you.

My point is, a cutesy figure in silk on a vest or a tie can be whimsical. That I can see. If I saw that rabbit tie in a shop, I would think, "Oh, someone made a tie from the Tenniel illustrations." I wouldn't buy it, but I might think it was cute. If I saw someone wearing it, ditto.

However, specially commissioning a whole run of ties based on one's Internet avatar does strike me as childish, role-playing in a creepy way. It suggests that one's online life is a lot more important than it should be, and defines one's self-image to a degree that is unhealthy. Maybe it's just me. But that's the way I see it.

 

[robasaurus]

Originally Posted by Manton

My point is, a cutesy figure in silk on a vest or a tie can be whimsical. That I can see. If I saw that rabbit tie in a shop, I would think, "Oh, someone made a tie from the Tenniel illustrations." I wouldn't buy it, but I might think it was cute. If I saw someone wearing it, ditto.

However, specially commissioning a whole run of ties based on one's Internet avatar does strike me as childish, role-playing in a creepy way. It suggests that one's online life is a lot more important than it should be, and defines one's self-image to a degree that is unhealthy. Maybe it's just me. But that's the way I see it.

Either that, or he enjoys Alice in Wonderland and is fond of the Tenniel illustrations.

The latter seems much more realistic to me.

 

[Doc4]

They seek him here ...
They seek him there ...
Those dandies seek him everywhere.
Is he in Heaven?
Or is he in ...
... Hell?
That damned ...
... elusive ...
... ??

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by robasaurus

Either that, or he enjoys Alice in Wonderland and is fond of the Tenniel illustrations.

The latter seems much more realistic to me.

I really don't think so, based on what I have read of his. To say nothing of other factors.

But I have to admit, you could be right.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

I like Alice in Wonderland, terrific book.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Doc4

They seek him here ...
They seek him there ...
Those dandies seek him everywhere.
Is he in Heaven?
Or is he in ...
... Hell?
That damned ...
... elusive ...
... ??

I had forgotten this. Hilarious.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Examples of English Dandyism, whole, in part and where he emanates from? Who is our English dandy? Does he exist or is he a composite made from less complete dapper dressers? Is he the occasional accident of a well dressed Briton or is he someone who makes every day a little more interesting for the observer? Can we really put our finger on it or is he simply, like a celluloid film star, living solely in our collective dreams? Is a dandy simply a fastidious version of our other jacket and tie wearing types? Is there a Barrister dandy, an ex serviceman dandy, a mandarin dandy, a west end club-land dandy, a city lad one? Or, is a dandy a creature apart, someone who marches to the beat of a completely different percussion instrument? For instance, aside from the full blown creature itself, elements of "dandyism" seem to be sprinkled both on the idle West End club land dweller and the City lad of the East End. The idea of the "dandy" is alive in most jacket and tie wearing Englishman, some classes suppress it (The boring but proper middle) as a sign of restraint, others salute it as an accent for their hum drum workaday garb (Top and bottom). The city lad prefers clothes that are aggressive while the aristo is content to choose items that tweak the face of the observer knowing full well they can do nothing about it. It is a reinforcement of the idea that classes further removed from each other have many of the same values in common. I find it easier to believe a city trader and a Lord someone-or-other-the-VIIth get along together for a night on the town than either could with a member of the more staid investment banks where the anxiety over status approaches the controlled self importance of "Upper middle management" demonstrated by the unintentionally comic character of Mr. Rumbold in the series Are you being served?

 

[robasaurus]

Originally Posted by Manton

I really don't think so, based on what I have read of his. To say nothing of other factors.

But I have to admit, you could be right.

Perhaps FNB himself would be kind enough to answer this question for us. (edit: He did, and I was just late posting. Thanks, FNB.)

Anyway, I have read a good number of FNB's threads, and whatever one might say about the quality of his posts or the content of his essays, at least he is contributing something meaningful to this forum rather than an endless slew of "ZOMG HELP ME FIGURE OUT WHAT SIZE C&J I WEAR!" threads.

This ongoing dispute or rivalry or whatever it is you two have going on seems rather childish in the view of this outsider (though not so much as Tomasso's screeds against you, or the current Mafoofan-centered controversy in WAYWT).

 

[RJmanbearpig]

Does Tomasso have screeds against Manton?

is not really a screed/

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by robasaurus

Perhaps FNB himself would be kind enough to answer this question for us. (edit: He did, and I was just late posting. Thanks, FNB.) Anyway, I have read a good number of FNB's threads, and whatever one might say about the quality of his posts or the content of his essays, at least he is contributing something meaningful to this forum rather than an endless slew of "ZOMG HELP ME FIGURE OUT WHAT SIZE C&J I WEAR!" threads. This ongoing dispute or rivalry or whatever it is you two have going on seems rather childish in the view of this outsider (though not so much as Tomasso's screeds against you, or the current Mafoofan-centered controversy in WAYWT).
No problem, thank you and good stuff.

 

[RJmanbearpig]

Manton, your new avatar sickens me.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by RJmanbearpig

Manton, your new avatar sickens me.
Detente, dude, it's all about the detente.