Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Harrydog, Mar 11, 2012.
There is a difference between "corresponding rather well" (as I wrote) and "equivalence"
Based on experience or believe? Does at least not match my experience trying on several lasts in several widths in the EG store.
From what I have read, it does seem that an American D-width is a medium width, depending on the English shoe-marker a medium width can be E (Edward Green, Crockett & Jones) or F (Church's).
However, this rule may not always apply.
All my Edward Green branded shoes are an E-width and my only Purple Label shoes are also an E-width - two things must be noted; i. last shape could have affected width required and ii. this may only apply to EG shoes.
Maybe suede is more accomodating to stretching so an initial D (narrow) width will stretch out to the equivalent of an E (medium) width?
This has been my experience as well.
Correct, according to Hilary Freeman. I specifically asked about this during a trunk show a few years ago. At the time, she said that their E width being the standard in the UK (vs. a D for the US) has to do with the average foot being a bit wider there, as well as the fact that North Americans tend to prefer a snugger fit than the British.
She added that a lot of EG's Japanese retailers order E width shoes because that's what their customers want, out of an odd desire to own EG's 'standard' UK width (as if that somehow made the shoes better or more authentic), while their feet would generally benefit from a D width.
Not with EG.
Thanks. This makes sense.
Mind I move the thread to EG pics? Specifically, anyone have some pics of their shoes in midnight antique after a moderate amount of wear? I am curious as to how they well age. Thanks!
EG width designation is standard no matter where the shoes are sold. They do not annotate a given width with a different letter in different markets.
Exactly, i.e. the E width sold by LS or Leffot is the same as the E width sold in their London shop.
Funny, I take an E width in EG but am normally a D width in US shoes.
Most of us do.
I was under the impression that E width in EG is standard D width for the US.
"Width" is a bit of a misnomer, as most people presume the term refers to the sole measurement (left to right). It is actually the circumference of the last, measured at the ball and other points of the last. The old term "fitting" would be probably more appropriate. In the old days a slim last was fitted-up with additional leather pieces to increase volume; this would also have increased the width of the sole with each additional 'fitting' attached.
The standard rule for the widest point of the sole is the ball measurement divided by 3 plus 10%. Let's do it metric (much easier than dividing inches) a circumference of 240mm : 3 + 10% + 88mm. The increase in circumference from one width to the next is about 5mm, which means the increase (or decrease) in sole width is about 1.5mm from one fitting to the next. Here is a drawing showing a particular last in a given size and different widths. The length remains constant, but the measurement at the widest point changes.
Most shoe factories (maybe all) do not change the sole shape with every width. The soles are dye-cut (large cookie-cutters) and it is common practice to build two shoe width on the same sole shape (the wider last is higher but not wider at the base, so the wider shoe has more volume but not in every dimension.) EG builds D and E on the same sole shape (this was once confirmed to me by an EG employee.) So E is higher than D, has more volume but is, strictly speaking, not wider than D. I presume with American shoes, although I had that never confirmed, widths C and D are based on the same insole; than a wider one will cover E and EE.
Here is a drawing from a text book (Golding, 1935) comparing a typical English with a typical American last.
The American one is wider in the base and shallower, the English one narrower and higher, giving both of them (more or less) the same circumference. I believe that distinction is still the case: American shoes are shallower (some of the Alden loafers can be extremely tight across the instep). So the EG shoe in D (same sole shape, but shallower last) will be closer to the American ideal, than the English E width; the American E width will be wider in the base than the standard English E, but they are quite close to each other in circumference.
I say that with reasonable, but not absolute, certainty as I have not access to the different individual last and so cannot get confirmation by runnig a tape measure over them. But I do not think, that I'm too far off.
Bengal-stripe- thank you. Very informative.
+1. That explains to me why I can wear Allen Edmonds shoes on the same last in both E & EE. Thanks!
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